e30 converted to 3.5 M30 engine

[525iBoy]

Originally posted by Chris Cab@Jun 21 2005, 02:48 PM
Dunno how much a used S50 crank goes for in Malaysia, but the custom pistons (JE, Wiseco, or Ross Racing) will run around US$800-950.....obviously a more aggressive cam will cost around US$350-500 depending on the one you choose....and so on.

It's not cheap to build an M20, but modifying the S50 crank & buying your pistons direct from a manufacturer is alot cheaper than buying the 3.0L stroker kits available on the market.

The least expensive way to build an M20 is a 2.7L stroker. As mentioned by someone above it makes great power for the E30....appx 190hp (similar to an M50B25). Take a ride in Tom's car if you have a chance.....very fun ride

hmmm.. if 2.7 makes only about 190 bhp and cost close to 1O painfuls Ks!!., then it prob more worthwhile to get a 2.5 installed (for about 3500) and chip it for another 800. Output wil then go from the stock 170bhp to about 180 and torque will be approx. commensurate...

Alv comments on the braking & handling are definitely relevant but those are not too expensive- OK not too cheap either :blink: Eg on my e34 (similar suspension setup to e30 but about 20% more expensive on avg) I improved the

suspension by
1) addiing some german lowering springs - RM650
2) set of 4 bilstein HD absorbers - RM 950 total
3) replaces some bushes -Rm 200-300
4) reconned M5 17" rims - RM 700

Brakes
1) used F. 535i calipers -Rm250
2) rebuilt above caliper RM150
3) new F discs - RM270
4) new SS brake lines RM 330

Total suspension (x tires) about RM2500 and on the brakes Rm 1000. or if I changed rear to disc sbout 500 more. if it was a e30 figures about 20% less so total about 3000-3500.

MY mech asked if I wanted the 735i brakes or even the 740i V8's !! as price is about the same. However since the front disc are about the same diameter and only a few mm thicker and given the 535i setup can easily handle the 218 hp on a 1450lb car and even a 1650lb monsther (the e32 & series) I sure it will handle a similar HP or a lighter 1200lb or so e30.

 

[525iBoy]

Originally posted by Alvin@Jun 20 2005, 03:35 PM
Well the 3.5L is also about 50kg more than a M20B25. The S50/S52 started sometime in 1994 ~ 1995. E34 almost dead then. No point to do a SS. If you do the research, Hartge's H35 with the BBK handles quite well. So i really do not believe that the extra weight is a problem. What you would need to do is really get the suspension settings right? Yes the the S50 is about 50kg more but it will definately not upset the handling at all! Its how you you do it & how much you are willing to spent!
Hmmmm wonder how i know????

He' s right!! if the additional weight is only some 50kg, just relocate the battery to the boot should just about offset the heavy front end since the battery is itself about 25Kg. By removing 25g from the front and placing 25kg to the boot you effectively neutralize everything by setting up an effectively cummulative. 50kg weight transfer from F to Rear.

eg.
1) Before conversion, ssume the Ideal balance F weight : R weight.= 50%:50%= approx 300kg: 300kg
2) Put in a M30, Front now 50kg more so F:R ratio = 350kg:300kg= ekk 54:46% !!!
3) remove 25Kg front battery to boot: F:R= 325:325!!! VOILA!! back to the 50/50 ideal :nyehehe:

actually as long as balance is plus or minus a cummulative 5-% or so. :e 52.5%: 47.5% it "OK" as BMWs are not spot on 50/50 anyway and if they were handling would be upset with your typical 60kg person sit down!! wether front or rear

movign the battery should'n tcost much as you just to need to rewire with some heavy wires..quite typical fix on heavy engined cars such as Alfa v6, maseratis etc...

jsut my 2cents..

 

[Zoggee]

Chris...I blurr liao man. :blink: I spent more then 10ks to totally rebuilt my M20 engine and more then 10k oso for my suspensions set up...still couldn't get the E30M3 handling.

can I post pictures of ur stuffs,you bought from US that was at my place...
Power doesn't come cheap.. :beaten:

 

[Alvin]

Originally posted by 525iBoy@Jun 21 2005, 01:49 PM
Alv comments on the braking & handling are definitely relevant but those are not too expensive- OK not too cheap either :blink: Eg on my e34 (similar suspension setup to e30 but about 20% more expensive on avg) I improved the

suspension by
1) addiing some german lowering springs - RM650
2) set of 4 bilstein HD absorbers - RM 950 total
3) replaces some bushes -Rm 200-300
4) reconned M5 17" rims - RM 700

Brakes
1) used F. 535i calipers -Rm250
2) rebuilt above caliper RM150
3) new F discs - RM270
4) new SS brake lines RM 330

Total suspension (x tires) about RM2500 and on the brakes Rm 1000. or if I changed rear to disc sbout 500 more. if it was a e30 figures about 20% less so total about 3000-3500.

MY mech asked if I wanted the 735i brakes or even the 740i V8's !! as price is about the same. However since the front disc are about the same diameter and only a few mm thicker and given the 535i setup can easily handle the 218 hp on a 1450lb car and even a 1650lb monsther (the e32 & series) I sure it will handle a similar HP or a lighter 1200lb or so e30.

Dude

Better not to compare with the E34. E30's are much more than the E34's in cost. First of all its 4 lug! Spring will cost about 1k, sway bars (n i mean really good ones) will cost more than 1k. Unless you can all these used, then you are lucky. But then again you will not get the hadling that you want. Proper spring rates IS IMPORTANT!

You can further reduce the weight up front not only by moving the battery back but by also changing the lower arms to aluminum.

Its not cheap. Yes the 2.5 conversion will still be a M20. Well what kinda power you are targeting at? If 10k budget is too high then better to stick with M20B25 plus some proper upgrades on stopping power & handling.

Come for the TT either in Puchong or Showru. Lots of E30 sifu's who you can chat with.

My last comments on this issue. Good luck mate!

 

[Jipster]

For clarification.....the following numbers came off bimmerforums.com :

S50
Straight 6 DOHC 24V Solid Lifter Valvetrain with Single VANOS and Individual Throttle Bodies. (Dual Vanos on 3.2Ls) 1992-2000. 152kg 333lbs

M50/M50TU
Straight 6 DOHC 24V/Straight 6 DOHC 24V with Single VANOS. 1989-1998. 136kg 299lbs
2.0 (150bhp), 2.5 (192bhp), 3.0 (240bhp) Sometimes referred to as S50US

I selected the above engine variants based on their popularity as potential 'drop in' conversions for the E30. The data of interest in this context is the weight (unknowns are whether weight is dry weight or wet weight; also what is considered to be part of engine e.g. manifolds etc.). Compare the above with the M30 weight below (from same source) :

M30
Straight 6 cylinder SOHC 12V. Big Six. 1973-1993. 143kg 315lbs
2.5i (150bhp), 2.8i (184bhp), 3.0 (185-208bhp), 3.3 (200-206bhp), 3.5 (218bhp)

In my opinion the weight difference appears to be minimal and can be managed. What I am trying to say is that the S50/M50 conversions are known quantities here in Malaysia i.e. it has been done before - and I have not heard anything negative from the owners of said cars regarding their weight distribution.

I have also read a comment made by a person named Ian in E30ZONE (UK site) who has done an S50B32 conversion on his E30 - he didnt think the extra weight of the S50 affected the handling performance of his E30 very much and apparently he has clocked very impressive times on the track with said conversion.

Consider finally the original weight of the car - assuming it is an M20:

M20
Straight 6 cylinder SOHC 12V. Baby Six. 1977-1992. 117kg 258lbs

Big difference right?

I suppose on paper figures may not tell the whole story........

enuff said....

 

[Jules]

Originally posted by 525iBoy@Jun 21 2005, 10:07 PM
...... since the battery is itself about 25Kg.

which battery do you have that weights this much. I think max 10kg is what mine weights.......

 

[Alvin]

Jip

Thanks for the further clarifications. Yes Ian is the person feature in the BMW Mag for doing the S50B32 conversion himself. Actually when i did the conversion for my e30, i was in discussion with him. Very nice chap & extremely helpful. Will meet up with him sometime this year to check his ride out in person.

WHatever it is, i have tested my 320i on track & it handles like a dream. Huge difference from the first track day after further tuning the suspension. Balance is great! Apart from the engine, the older gearbox is also heavier.

Anyway depends on which way you choose. I choose the extreme way & spent quite a lot on the car. After all its a project car & my target is over 300BHP.

 

[Jipster]

alvin ....one day u take me for ride in E30 320 monster ok :yes:

 

[Alvin]

Originally posted by Jipster@Jun 22 2005, 06:01 AM
alvin ....one day u take me for ride in E30 320 monster ok :yes:

Can!

 

[Chris Cab]

Sure Zoggee post away, but please email them to me also since I don't have them saved.

For the record, a 2.7L stroker will not cost 10K.......my rebuild minus the crank, pistons, injectors, cam was 8K and I replaced everything in the engine with new stock internals (ie, new con-rods, new valves, etc).

A budget 2.7L stroker can be done for much less if all your doing is opening an engine and replacing the crank, pistons or con-rods. You don't have to do a complete rebuild. In the US folks do 2.7L strokers for very little money. Of course they typically do it themselves, but still the labor charges in Malaysia are almost nothing.

Furthermore, you'll never get 300hp out of a N/A M20....well at least not an M20 that you could use as a daily driver, and that would be street legal running on pump gas.

Calvin Tan has the most built street N/A M20 that I know of and he's not at 300hp. Very impressive numbers though regardless and of course VERY impressive E30.

 

[Alvin]

Chris

H ah ha ha ha We need to compare notes. Yet to dyno my car yet tho.
Was mentioning 300bhp cause he must decide what he wants. If 200 the M20 if 300 the S50 NA or M50 SC.

Calvin's ride is sweet! About 220 bhp or so i believe.

 

[Chris Cab]

Hehe, but you're a cheater with that engine

Last dyno I saw Calvin had 214rwhp prior to the Dbilas install.

If F/I, turbo M20B25's are getting as much as 320hp w/ 14psi boost in the US. Strokers are making even better numbers of course and without the horrid turbo lag since they have alot of torque down low already.

 

[teejay]

Originally posted by 525iBoy@Jun 21 2005, 10:07 PM



actually as long as balance is plus or minus a cummulative 5-% or so. :e 52.5%: 47.5% it "OK" as BMWs are not spot on 50/50 anyway and if they were handling would be upset with your typical 60kg person sit down!! wether front or rear

movign the battery should'n tcost much as you just to need to rewire with some heavy wires..quite typical fix on heavy engined cars such as Alfa v6, maseratis etc...

jsut my 2cents..

damn....

i've gotta start losing weight..... h34r:

thats why my car got no power....

Alvin, why didnt you advise me first....!!!! :getyourfactsright:

 

[Alvin]

TJ

I did remember! he h eh he he

 

[Zoggee]

with permission from Chris...here's power kit.

 

[Zoggee]

B) cost a boom!!!

 

[Zoggee]

the bellow.. B)

 

[Zoggee]

:nyehehe: the chip...injectors and throttle body

 

[supergripen]

Originally posted by Chris Cab@Jun 22 2005, 03:32 PM


Calvin Tan has the most built street N/A M20 that I know of and he's not at 300hp. Very impressive numbers though regardless and of course VERY impressive E30.

yup,i can attest to that..saw his e30 the other day..sweeeeet!!!!

 

[535i]

Originally posted by Zoggee@Jun 22 2005, 12:26 PM
with permission from Chris...here's power kit.

koko ..

enjin cover looks familiar laaa ... :yes: