Vanos Failure

[David Y]

Hi all E39ers,Got caught in a crawl on Federal Highway from Subang Jaya to Mid-Valley last Thursday. In a stop-go-stop-go situation, the engine lost its smoothness. Took my ride to M-Sport in PJ, diagnostic was a mechanically jammed Vanos.Damages - RM450 (replacement & labour). At that price, they probably used a repair kit. A new Vanos will set me back at least RM2k.Research on the Net shows that BMW has an inherent "manufacturing defect" in the piston O-rings in the Vanos unit. Click link http://www.beisansystems.com/faq.htmlWill ask the mechanics at M-Sport whether they are aware of the Repair Kit that is available at BeisanDavid Y

 

[ramsing]

search for Dr. Vanos. much better option. www.drvanos.com

 

[David Y]

search for Dr. Vanos. much better option. www.drvanos.com

Thanks, Ramsing, for the link.

Beisan offers the Seal Kit while Dr. Vanos offers the re-built vanos complete with new gasket and the vito O-ring(s) and teflon seal(s). At the higher end, Dr. Vanos also includes the thrust washers, spring plate and intake cam gear.

Strangely, M-Sport only changed the thrust washers and spring plate on my ride; they said the seal was okay. Then again, they could not check the condition of the O-ring without damaging the teflon seal. I am wondering whether the problem with the O-ring is only peculiar to BMW in the US market where the chemical make-up in the engine oil may be different from the rest of the world.

If I do need a re-built Vanos from BMW, then I will consider getting one from Dr. Vanos.

 

[ramsing]

i guess it really depends on how much u're willing to spend. and i don't think the wear n tear is just limited to the states. thing about vanos is that as it ages, you can't really feel the loss in power. only the noise gets worse. mine is driving me up the wall. still praying to the vanos gods that the noise will hopefully go away

 

[pussy]

the vanos will fail if the oil is not changed frequently, slug builds up, damages the teflon ring.. no repair here but to change to a second hand unit.. had mine changed during my rebuild..the response is sharper now..

btw, check your solenoid, sometimes it fails...

 

[wc9922]

the vanos will fail if the oil is not changed frequently, slug builds up, damages the teflon ring.. no repair here but to change to a second hand unit.. had mine changed during my rebuild..the response is sharper now..

btw, check your solenoid, sometimes it fails...

Pussy--> here u can answer the question.but .my question u stil hav not answered yet.

 

[mbm8800]

bro..kinda silly question though but how 2 notice d vanos is kaput??

 

[Herbert]

Hi guys,

Bringing up this old tread again. Having read all the above comments on vanos failure and since my ride has clocked 203,000 km, I wonder whether my 525i double vanos is still alright. Diagnostic test done recently during routine service did not indicate any vanos failure. I have also read about Beisans from http://www.beisansystems.com/faq.html and in fact exchanged some emails with the founder of Beisans and he recommended me to replace my vanos seals. I went to Bavarian Auto Works (Kayu Ara) and was quoted RM900 for to replace Beisans seals and other vanos parts. The mechanic said there is no way to confirm whether the vanos seals are bad other than to replace them. I hesitated to proceed with the repair and would like to seek opinions from you guys who has had their double vanos seals replaced.

 

[selfmech]

Vanos seal

Hi Herbert,

If you hear a high pitch noise in the morning when you start up the engine, chances is that your vanos seal is worn out.
I replaced mine and the sound is gone.

Good Luck.

 

[Herbert]

Hi Herbert,

If you hear a high pitch noise in the morning when you start up the engine, chances is that your vanos seal is worn out.
I replaced mine and the sound is gone.

Good Luck.

Don't think my engine has the high pitch noise in the morning. But then, whenever I accelerate from low to high rpm (like making a 90 degrees turn), engine will hesitate for 1 to 2 secs before picking up speed. BTW, how much did you pay for vanos seal and is your ride a M52 or M54 engine??

 

[Herbert]

Guys,

I thought this Vanos forum will be interesting for all to read. http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/vanos/

We have more than 200 E39 registered at BMW Club Malaysia and only a few have reported problems with their vanos seals. I believe many are unaware of bad symptoms for a vanos failure (bogging, shuddering/stuttering from engine on moderate acceleration below 3k RPM).

 

[dzuljazz2001]

Don't think my engine has the high pitch noise in the morning. But then, whenever I accelerate from low to high rpm (like making a 90 degrees turn), engine will hesitate for 1 to 2 secs before picking up speed. BTW, how much did you pay for vanos seal and is your ride a M52 or M54 engine??

:listen: Single and dual VANOS systems due to age and mileage are commonly seeing performance issues as well as complete failure of the VANOS piston seals. Another common effect is a "Rattling" sound coming from the upper valve train assembly. The original seal material was found to be inferior for the application and tends to break down in as little as 25k - 35k miles......

 

[Herbert]

:listen: Single and dual VANOS systems due to age and mileage are commonly seeing performance issues as well as complete failure of the VANOS piston seals. Another common effect is a "Rattling" sound coming from the upper valve train assembly. The original seal material was found to be inferior for the application and tends to break down in as little as 25k - 35k miles......

Bro dzuljazz200,

Thanks for above info. Since the seals tend to break down 25 - 35K miles, almost all of our BMW owners in the club are not complaining/reporting about their vanos failures. I wonder why??

 

[jaleeks23]

I have changed my doublevanos before, bought from chopshop...The exhaust part piston jam. Changed it back in 2008. If the vanos has problems, do a diagnose and it will show error (I can't recall the actual error but I think it's something to do with exhaust vanos sensor failure). I remember we put in a new sensor yet it still happened, swap sensor, still same. The car just doesn't have the power to drag and jerks especially when reaching 4k rpm. Since I changed the vanos, seems oK until now....I think if we consistently change engine oil, it will prolong the lifespan but the previous owner of my car followed the service indicator, therefore the problem I guess.

 

[selfmech]

Herbert,

I bought from Beisan USD 60 + USD 23 for shipping.
Replace myself its about 4 hrs job.

Brgds.

 

[B33mEr]

the vanos will fail if the oil is not changed frequently, slug builds up, damages the teflon ring.. no repair here but to change to a second hand unit.. had mine changed during my rebuild..the response is sharper now..

btw, check your solenoid, sometimes it fails...

I have changed my doublevanos before, bought from chopshop...The exhaust part piston jam. Changed it back in 2008. If the vanos has problems, do a diagnose and it will show error (I can't recall the actual error but I think it's something to do with exhaust vanos sensor failure). I remember we put in a new sensor yet it still happened, swap sensor, still same. The car just doesn't have the power to drag and jerks especially when reaching 4k rpm. Since I changed the vanos, seems oK until now....I think if we consistently change engine oil, it will prolong the lifespan but the previous owner of my car followed the service indicator, therefore the problem I guess.

Totally agree with bro pussy and bro jaleeks ... The main cause of early VANOS failure is due to long oil change interval (OCI) ... But i do have to say that diagnosing a worn out VANOS seal is very hard ...

A quote from Beisan regarding fault codes to look out for that may be due to worn out VANOS seal:

In some cases the engine computer will generate a fault code. The code is usually associated with the vanos exhaust side. This is due to the powerful spring in the vanos exhaust cylinder which forces the piston out. Fault codes include:
P1520 (BMW 104, 0x68): B (exhaust) Camshaft Position Actuator (faulty reference value).
P1523 (BMW 106, 0x6A): B (exhaust) Camshaft Position Actuator Tight or Jammed (mechanically stuck).
P1397 (BMW 18, 0x12): Camshaft Position Sensor B (exhaust) Circuit.
The exhaust camshaft position sensor (CPS) is a common failure. But if replacing the exhaust CPS (w/ OEM CPS) doesn’t work then it’s likely the vanos failure.
On 01+ M54 & M56 engine cars codes P1520 & P1523 were removed. Thus code P1397 appears.

 

[Herbert]

Herbert,

I bought from Beisan USD 60 + USD 23 for shipping.
Replace myself its about 4 hrs job.

Brgds.

Bro selfmech,

Guess yours is a double vanos. What made you replaced the vanos selas?? What were the symptoms before replacement??

The workshop that I approaced to replace the vanos selas also import the vanos selas from Beisan. However they also wanted to replace other items inside the vanos assemble (other than the seals) for RM900. Is that necessary??

 

[selfmech]

Herbert,

I replace the seal after researching in the web and found the symptoms do match. I hear a high pitch noise (like airplane taking off 15 - 20 secs) for a short while during morning starts.
After changing it, the I have never heard it. I guess the vanos friction causes it. During replacement, the seals looks okay except the new ones is slightly fatter and tight to fix.
I doubt there is anything else to change as the cup and other mechanism seem to be very precised machine parts. If damage you better change the whole unit.
My photo files is quite big to post but I can send it to your P.M if you are interested.

Brgds.

 

[bmw7833]

Herbert,

I replace the seal after researching in the web and found the symptoms do match. I hear a high pitch noise (like airplane taking off 15 - 20 secs) for a short while during morning starts.
After changing it, the I have never heard it. I guess the vanos friction causes it. During replacement, the seals looks okay except the new ones is slightly fatter and tight to fix.
I doubt there is anything else to change as the cup and other mechanism seem to be very precised machine parts. If damage you better change the whole unit.
My photo files is quite big to post but I can send it to your P.M if you are interested.

Brgds.

Send the pic to me, i upload for u.

 

[Herbert]

Guys,

I plan to purchase the vanos seal from Beisan. Anyone is interested for a group buy?? You can obtain product details and pricing from www.beisansystems.com.