m50 head on m20 block
- Thread starter McFir7
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leforte
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CAN be fitted, since the m50 engine is derived from the m20 anyway.
BUT, you would have to change your piston as well as your original m20 pistons are meant only for 2 valves application and using the same piston with a m50 head which has 4 valves per cylinder will have all your valves bent beyond salvage even with just one crank on your starter.
so in other words, unless you are doing a complete overhaul or you have too much money to spare, this is not practical in a economical sense.
anyway, you will also have to tackle the issues of the m50 fuel injection system after fitting the head or else the engine cant run. alternatively you may try carburating it with a webber system
BUT, you would have to change your piston as well as your original m20 pistons are meant only for 2 valves application and using the same piston with a m50 head which has 4 valves per cylinder will have all your valves bent beyond salvage even with just one crank on your starter.
so in other words, unless you are doing a complete overhaul or you have too much money to spare, this is not practical in a economical sense.
anyway, you will also have to tackle the issues of the m50 fuel injection system after fitting the head or else the engine cant run. alternatively you may try carburating it with a webber system
leforte said:CAN be fitted, since the m50 engine is derived from the m20 anyway.
BUT, you would have to change your piston as well as your original m20 pistons are meant only for 2 valves application and using the same piston with a m50 head which has 4 valves per cylinder will have all your valves bent beyond salvage even with just one crank on your starter.
so in other words, unless you are doing a complete overhaul or you have too much money to spare, this is not practical in a economical sense.
anyway, you will also have to tackle the issues of the m50 fuel injection system after fitting the head or else the engine cant run. alternatively you may try carburating it with a webber system
The blind leading the blind.
fabianyee
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M50 could be derived from M20 but that doesn't mean it'll be technically viable or easy feat. FYI, even the engine block for the J-Tronic differs from the Motronic engine block. M20 uses timing belt but M50 uses chain, that in itself is a big technical challenge in the conversion.
The word derive can sometimes means it is based on certain block but with 300 minor changes in total. So the question is would it be technically and economically viable to do all those changes on your own.
There was a tuner in the US which did a prototype 24 valve head for the M20 but abandon the project after the introduction of the M50 24v engine. I read that article on the net but not sure can still retrieve the page anymore.
The word derive can sometimes means it is based on certain block but with 300 minor changes in total. So the question is would it be technically and economically viable to do all those changes on your own.
There was a tuner in the US which did a prototype 24 valve head for the M20 but abandon the project after the introduction of the M50 24v engine. I read that article on the net but not sure can still retrieve the page anymore.
Jules
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I think the easier way is to just drop the M50 in unless you are looking for something we cannot understand here. And cost wise, surely a straight drop in is more economical...
care to share?
Leforte.....I think Fab has raised some very valid points, but then let's hear u out.
care to share?
Leforte.....I think Fab has raised some very valid points, but then let's hear u out.
ALBundy
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The M50 is certainly NOT derived from the M20, thats for sure. Likewise, I can say for sure the M50TU, M52, M54 are all derived from the M50.
The block is different, the head is different, the pistons dont even look alike, similarly other common parts like water pump, oil pump and etc, not forgetting to mention the M50 comes with individual coils, air mass sensor and etc. Completely different engine if you ask me.
The block is different, the head is different, the pistons dont even look alike, similarly other common parts like water pump, oil pump and etc, not forgetting to mention the M50 comes with individual coils, air mass sensor and etc. Completely different engine if you ask me.
skar19
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first of all...how much money do you want to spend on this car to get it to what you want?? that would determine everything...
also dont waste your time on the m50 head on the m20...it wont work as explained...besides the m50 is far more superior compared to the m20. If you are interested in knowing and learning more about what can be done...PM me
also dont waste your time on the m50 head on the m20...it wont work as explained...besides the m50 is far more superior compared to the m20. If you are interested in knowing and learning more about what can be done...PM me
pussy
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Leforte.. my 2 cents about this.
hmmn.. the head gasket does not match, the oil/water jackets not in line.. wasting time debating.. tell me how to settle the timing change issue..
the issue was can a M50 head fit on a M20 block, yes it can 'sit' but to make it work, it can't..
the issue is fitting a M50 head on a M20 block is like fitting a S50euro head on a M50 block.. head gasket same ? or a S14 head on a M44 block ?
show me a picture of a running car fitted with a M50 head with a M20 block..
derived from M20 ? yes, there is similarities to the M50.. they are all small six's blocks..
regards.
hmmn.. the head gasket does not match, the oil/water jackets not in line.. wasting time debating.. tell me how to settle the timing change issue..
the issue was can a M50 head fit on a M20 block, yes it can 'sit' but to make it work, it can't..
the issue is fitting a M50 head on a M20 block is like fitting a S50euro head on a M50 block.. head gasket same ? or a S14 head on a M44 block ?
show me a picture of a running car fitted with a M50 head with a M20 block..
derived from M20 ? yes, there is similarities to the M50.. they are all small six's blocks..
regards.
McFir7
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sorry guys if i created a debate for u guys..i m really happy to hear that we have very knowledge people in this forum..thanx for all u guys here for replying..i was just thinking that wit m50 head n m20 block the weight will be less.
but if the price is more than to fit the whole m50 in.its better i just swap the whole m50 in right?the thing is i have a e30 325i wit switchable auto.but my wiring all has coroded.
so i m thinkin to swap to m50.cause my m20b25 when it was working.the idle is kind of rough.n the idle in high.the engine sound is loud even at idle..
so was thinkin to go for m42b18 or m50tub20..or should i keep the m20b25..cause my e30 is cab.so its a bit waste if i mod from the origin right?
anyone have a good e30 325i for me to view b4 i do anythin to my cab?
but if the price is more than to fit the whole m50 in.its better i just swap the whole m50 in right?the thing is i have a e30 325i wit switchable auto.but my wiring all has coroded.
so i m thinkin to swap to m50.cause my m20b25 when it was working.the idle is kind of rough.n the idle in high.the engine sound is loud even at idle..
so was thinkin to go for m42b18 or m50tub20..or should i keep the m20b25..cause my e30 is cab.so its a bit waste if i mod from the origin right?
anyone have a good e30 325i for me to view b4 i do anythin to my cab?
leforte
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Dear pussy,
i shall hereby return your two cents...
first of all, there's no debate here, nothing is wasted, just a sharing of knowledge.
the timing issue can easily be dealt with a visit to the machine shop to have a spocket fabricated as per m50 specs. water/oil galleries can be match to the head with a adapter plate in between the head and block. in other words, the m50 WILL fit and it WILL work with added effort, custom fabrication of parts and loads of MONEY.
secondly the m50 and s50euro shares the same block. both uses different gasket due to different heads. and both heads are interchangable and workable with full swap of engine electronics. However the s14 head will not even FIT let alone work on the m4x(m40,m42,m43,m44) block. its just too long.. ...however, the s14 head will fit and work on the older m10 block.
i shall hereby return your two cents...
first of all, there's no debate here, nothing is wasted, just a sharing of knowledge.
the timing issue can easily be dealt with a visit to the machine shop to have a spocket fabricated as per m50 specs. water/oil galleries can be match to the head with a adapter plate in between the head and block. in other words, the m50 WILL fit and it WILL work with added effort, custom fabrication of parts and loads of MONEY.
secondly the m50 and s50euro shares the same block. both uses different gasket due to different heads. and both heads are interchangable and workable with full swap of engine electronics. However the s14 head will not even FIT let alone work on the m4x(m40,m42,m43,m44) block. its just too long.. ...however, the s14 head will fit and work on the older m10 block.
Jules
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GOOD TO SEE we all discussing PROPERLY AND COURTEOUSLY and as afterall, this is what a forum is for.
Leforte, good to see you took effort to explain your points.
Guys, keep this up and yes, I am leaning too due to all of you sharing.
Just a further, would a adapter plate between the head and block change the compression ratio? which is important for NA performance.....
Yes, modding is NEVER CHEAP or rather POWER is never cheap. sigh!
McFir, for your quest - get a proven system and yes SYSTEM is the word, not component ok.
Cheers!
Leforte, good to see you took effort to explain your points.
Guys, keep this up and yes, I am leaning too due to all of you sharing.
Just a further, would a adapter plate between the head and block change the compression ratio? which is important for NA performance.....
Yes, modding is NEVER CHEAP or rather POWER is never cheap. sigh!
McFir, for your quest - get a proven system and yes SYSTEM is the word, not component ok.
Cheers!
