E90 325i vs benz w204 c230

[Schwepps]

K3nny my man, glock_8 has said it all. Where you are right is that Mercs usually feel more classy and cushy than BMWs. Where you are wrong is to make assumptions about what an E90 feels like, especially the M-Sports versions, without owning and living with one. Where you are also wrong is to compare your W204 to your E60, just as it would be wrong for me to compare my E90 to my W211.

I drive pretty snappily most of the time as I'm very seldom stuck in jams because I studiously avoid them. So it's a matter of personal taste, K3nny. The W204 is a good car, but it's only 'awesome' to those it suits.

 

[E46Fanatic]

Both cars are lovely cars. It just depends on where your preferences are. The Merc more subdued, while the E90 more raw. For some, the rawness gets tiring, for some the subduedness gets boring.

For me, I think the W204 is nice esp in 230 V6 Avantgarde guise and in white :top:. But having tasted the 230 V6, I find its refined but lacks in low end punch and excitement in the high revs. Overtime I might just get bored with it, which is the same problem I have with Camcords.. The E90 is much less boring for my taste. Maybe in 10 years time, when my butt is more sensitive, reflexes slower, and less adrenalin flowing in my blood I'll find the Merc to be towards my preferences. In the mean time, I'll keep a look out for W204 230 V6's (and Audi B8 1.8T's) on the road to see if they are gung ho to have a little friendly comparison. Still quite rare. At least its all done with the Lexus IS250 :wink:

 

[Schwepps]

Well said E46F! :top: Driving my W211 puts me to sleep. It's too coddling.

Ahem! I must be at least 10 years older than you son, but my butt is NOT more sensitive, reflexes are not slower, and there's just as much adenalin (and testosterone) flowing. If you like it raw, you never lose it. :wink: In fact, you come back to it, eg. after toying with SUVs and such for a few years.

 

[k3nny]

glock8: Here are my thoughts.

1. By sports version all you mean is different springs right? That makes you MORE connected to the road? I dont even think they change the ARB to thicker ones?

So all in all, its the same car with diffferent springs.

I have an E60 530i with normal kit in my household and an E60 525i M-Sport in my household. Please feel free to swing by and take them for a swing and then come and tell me the difference you feel in "aerodynamics".

If you would like to talk about the looks and the interior spec, fair enough.

2. Thats very true i suppose. The Mercedes brand will always carry that image around with it as much as BMW's will carry that "break down all the time and expensive to maintain" image with it. Whether or not it is true poses too many variables to say with any given certainty.

3. Wannabe? I dont see how slapping an AMG kit on is being a wannabe unless i put a C63 badge on my car? Im not one for social stigma and peoples opinions as its my money, and i spend it how i see fit, wannabe or not. More often than not, i find its sour grapes that criticize. Im saying as a generalization. Not as a personal attack. Please dont misunderstand.

4. And there are many levels of Sport Sedan. You want VERY CONNECTED with every BUMP in the road travelling up your spine, you can try my Audi A4 B7 2.0t S-Line. With the S-Line springs, EVERY DAMN bump comes up.

Really loosens your fillings in your teeth. With that car in mind, i can then safely say want a spongy ride, get an E90 as compared to this car, its spongy? Fair enough? Its all very subjective in my opinion and once again, its a matter of the users preference but to insinuate that the C-Class isnt a sport sedan isnt valid at all in my opinion.

I think that the C-Class handles ably well and although the powerplant (in my C230 at least) lacks abit of punch and im not too pleased with the 7 speed gearbox, i can dare say the handling and driving dynamics are very good.

Honestly, in my humble opinion, not far off from the E90 which i have driven on countless occasions.

5. Once again you have chosen to give me a comparison that is on one end of the extreme. About how a F430 wont provide any comfort in the NVH levels?

Ill throw you one. How bout a Maserati Quattroporte then?

All the comfort, not a big sacrifice on NVH and the power of a F430 (its a ferrari sourced powerplant)?

6. Ive tried the AMG C32 of the older C-Class and then back into a C230 Kompressor and ill be the first to tell you, the difference isnt that big. Even from the E46 M3 to the E46 330i, not a big difference. Im speaking from personal experience.

7. I have driven the E90. Even the 325i sport, idrive and all! I can compare for this particular fact because with this paragraph, i was commenting on the car's comfort levels. Not about its driving feel.

And the E60, being one model up should be better on the comfort level and if the E60 loses to the W204 in this aspect, its safe to assume the E90 will.

So yes, i can judge as i HAVE driven the E90 325i sports and for the purpose of this paragraph whcih is purely comfort and uneven roads, i can make that assumption. I think its fair.

8. Im sorry but i dont see how you made the assumption that my comparison is with the non i-drive version when i didnt say so.

I use i-drive in my E60 and E65. I wont say its a masterpiece. Even the new COMMAND in the new S-classes, i dont like.

I like the older COMMAND system with the TV in the middle and the buttons around.

I can live without i-drive. but then again, thats a matter of personal opinion and you love the i-drive, i dont hate, im just impartial.

But once again, both are lovely cars. Im just giving my opinion on both and those are my PERSONAL opinions. Not anything i expect anyone to adopt from reading. Feel free to make your own opinions upon driving those cars.

My cheap 2c. Hehe

 

[k3nny]

Both cars are lovely cars. It just depends on where your preferences are. The Merc more subdued, while the E90 more raw. For some, the rawness gets tiring, for some the subduedness gets boring.

For me, I think the W204 is nice esp in 230 V6 Avantgarde guise and in white :top:. But having tasted the 230 V6, I find its refined but lacks in low end punch and excitement in the high revs. Overtime I might just get bored with it, which is the same problem I have with Camcords.. The E90 is much less boring for my taste. Maybe in 10 years time, when my butt is more sensitive, reflexes slower, and less adrenalin flowing in my blood I'll find the Merc to be towards my preferences. In the mean time, I'll keep a look out for W204 230 V6's (and Audi B8 1.8T's) on the road to see if they are gung ho to have a little friendly comparison. Still quite rare. At least its all done with the Lexus IS250 :wink:

I have it exactly as you put it, in White and C230 Avantgarde with the nice tan coloured interior.

I honestly felt the same as well with a bit lacking in the low end but that maybe the lousy 7-speed gearbox which im not too keen about. My friends C200K seems to be fine with 8hp less?

The B8 1.8t's put out almost 200hp? I have a B7 2.0t what puts out exactly 200hp and ill be happy to be your test subject. just let me know. I can also bring the C230 for the purpose of "education".

As some people have put it with out of the world comparisons, you want raw, get a Ferrari F430 it seems. Or even with this price range, a R34 GTR.

But of course thats not the way we make comparisons is it?

I have to admit i havent spent EXTENDED periods of time in the E90 but i have spent a fair amount of time having swapped my Audi with my cousin for the E90 for weeks before but having been in an E46 before, and i dont know how the E90 improves on the comfort bit esp with runflats, i really was not too happy with the comfort levels with the sport springs.

I found it too much of a compromise and yes the drives to genting would be fun but the rest of my work week would be hopeless whenever the roads get bad. Dont even talk about crossing railroad tracks or the hill up towards pantai outside pantai hospital.

OMG.

but once again, its my opinion. you're entitled to your own as i am to mine as skewed as you may perceive mine to be.

 

[glock_8]

glock8: Here are my thoughts.

1. By sports version all you mean is different springs right? That makes you MORE connected to the road? I dont even think they change the ARB to thicker ones?

So all in all, its the same car with diffferent springs.>> based on how many cars you have in your garage i am surprise how you conclude a sport tuned suspension is just a replacement of a spring.

I have an E60 530i with normal kit in my household and an E60 525i M-Sport in my household. Please feel free to swing by and take them for a swing and then come and tell me the difference you feel in "aerodynamics". I think all engineers that have spend countless hours setting up spoilers on audi R8/evo X/ civic type R are wasting their time since there is no real benefit putting an aerodynamic kit on their sport car. .....Aerodynamic will make it present feel when you reach a high speed of excess 220km/h....you'll feel very big different...those japs putting on the huge GT wings don;t simply put it on to waste money you know.

If you would like to talk about the looks and the interior spec, fair enough.

2. Thats very true i suppose. The Mercedes brand will always carry that image around with it as much as BMW's will carry that "break down all the time and expensive to maintain" image with it. Whether or not it is true poses too many variables to say with any given certainty.I kinda like the expansive to maintain part!!! make me feel good hahaha

3. Wannabe? I dont see how slapping an AMG kit on is being a wannabe unless i put a C63 badge on my car? Im not one for social stigma and peoples opinions as its my money, and i spend it how i see fit, wannabe or not. More often than not, i find its sour grapes that criticize. Im saying as a generalization. Not as a personal attack. Please dont misunderstand. Nah, if i drive a wira, i;ll never put on evo kit on it..same if i drive a entry level 3 series i.e 325...i wont put the m3 kit on it....funny thing u have so many cars in the garage which show how wealthy you are, why be ordinary? get youself a 911 gt2...that will save you a headache to choose between c230 vs 325i

4. And there are many levels of Sport Sedan. You want VERY CONNECTED with every BUMP in the road travelling up your spine, you can try my Audi A4 B7 2.0t S-Line. With the S-Line springs, EVERY DAMN bump comes up.

Really loosens your fillings in your teeth. With that car in mind, i can then safely say want a spongy ride, get an E90 as compared to this car, its spongy? Fair enough? Its all very subjective in my opinion and once again, its a matter of the users preference but to insinuate that the C-Class isnt a sport sedan isnt valid at all in my opinion. if you just click the youtube look for top gear review or fifth gear review on e90, you'll get what i meant by connected to the road. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCRD56bLLZw t and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV5FYjr0agY

I think that the C-Class handles ably well and although the powerplant (in my C230 at least) lacks abit of punch and im not too pleased with the 7 speed gearbox, i can dare say the handling and driving dynamics are very good.I just leave all the driver feed back to the pro like top gear or fifth gear...rather than a person who says sport tuned suspension is just a replacement of spring.

Honestly, in my humble opinion, not far off from the E90 which i have driven on countless occasions. since this 325 sport is the only car that i can afford to buy, i have test driven almost every car available on showroom in KL too (same car category from accord to lexus is250) before i conclude my purchase....

5. Once again you have chosen to give me a comparison that is on one end of the extreme. About how a F430 wont provide any comfort in the NVH levels? Im trying to make a point how people would spend million on a spine shattering car because he know what he want... a sport car

Ill throw you one. How bout a Maserati Quattroporte then?

All the comfort, not a big sacrifice on NVH and the power of a F430 (its a ferrari sourced powerplant)?read all the review...not even close to the F430...my friend if you compare a masserati and f430 to be in the same boat...i think i just rest my case and let god show you the way....

6. Ive tried the AMG C32 of the older C-Class and then back into a C230 Kompressor and ill be the first to tell you, the difference isnt that big. Even from the E46 M3 to the E46 330i, not a big difference. Im speaking from personal experience.

7. I have driven the E90. Even the 325i sport, idrive and all! I can compare for this particular fact because with this paragraph, i was commenting on the car's comfort levels. Not about its driving feel.

And the E60, being one model up should be better on the comfort level and if the E60 loses to the W204 in this aspect, its safe to assume the E90 will.

So yes, i can judge as i HAVE driven the E90 325i sports and for the purpose of this paragraph whcih is purely comfort and uneven roads, i can make that assumption. I think its fair.

8. Im sorry but i dont see how you made the assumption that my comparison is with the non i-drive version when i didnt say so.

I use i-drive in my E60 and E65. I wont say its a masterpiece. Even the new COMMAND in the new S-classes, i dont like.

I like the older COMMAND system with the TV in the middle and the buttons around.

I can live without i-drive. but then again, thats a matter of personal opinion and you love the i-drive, i dont hate, im just impartial.

But once again, both are lovely cars. Im just giving my opinion on both and those are my PERSONAL opinions. Not anything i expect anyone to adopt from reading. Feel free to make your own opinions upon driving those cars.

My cheap 2c. Hehe

i was just trying to enlightened you...

 

[E46Fanatic]

I have it exactly as you put it, in White and C230 Avantgarde with the nice tan coloured interior.

I honestly felt the same as well with a bit lacking in the low end but that maybe the lousy 7-speed gearbox which im not too keen about. My friends C200K seems to be fine with 8hp less?

The B8 1.8t's put out almost 200hp? I have a B7 2.0t what puts out exactly 200hp and ill be happy to be your test subject. just let me know. I can also bring the C230 for the purpose of "education".


I found it too much of a compromise and yes the drives to genting would be fun but the rest of my work week would be hopeless whenever the roads get bad. Dont even talk about crossing railroad tracks or the hill up towards pantai outside pantai hospital.

OMG.

but once again, its my opinion. you're entitled to your own as i am to mine as skewed as you may perceive mine to be.

Then C probably get more stares than you would get in your E60 M sport (for now). Each time I see a white 230V6 AG go by I stare too :love:. Yeah the 230V6 is a little weak on the low end, and I don't think its the 7G tranny. Its not bad, but just not as responsive and punchy as the N52. I find the engine silky smooth though but not a big fan of its characteristics as I like the scream of the N52 at 7k rpms which the Merc was not designed to deliver. The C200k is only 184hp but also pretty impressive torque (blown engine) and is lighter. Hence it feel quite peppy around town, but when pushed, it runs out of breath and sounds like a stressed sewing machine (sorry). But overall I still like the W204 230 V6 AG and prefer it to both the new A4 1.8T or the IS250. The B8 A4 1.8T has only 150+ hp unlike the 325i with 218hp, with similar torque levels 250NM (peaking even lower at 1500 rpms). Hence it gives very good low end grunt.. but fizzles out on the top end. Engine sound also looses out majorly to both the Merc and BMW sixes.

So maybe one of these days, you can bring out the shiny 230V6 and join us in one of our "controlled" tests on a late evening (we've tested with an AMG CLK 55 in one of our sessions before and it ate us up alive!). Its been a while since the boys like DY, Ken, SimonKHW, Michael etc met up and we are still planning for a test session with Mike's 330i vs Ken's 330i. DY and Me needs a rematch as well heh (ok so I don't like loosing but someone's gotta do it LOL).

 

[jagmalhi]

jeez..y can't all of u just agree to disagree..

 

[Schwepps]

jeez..y can't all of u just agree to disagree..

Uhhh...no? We're all hot-blooded. That's why camcords don't turn us on.

Forums would be boring without occasional feisty swordplay to entertain us. All taken in good spirit, don't worry.

 

[David Yong]

So maybe one of these days, you can bring out the shiny 230V6 and join us in one of our "controlled" tests on a late evening (we've tested with an AMG CLK 55 in one of our sessions before and it ate us up alive!). Its been a while since the boys like DY, Ken, SimonKHW, Michael etc met up and we are still planning for a test session with Mike's 330i vs Ken's 330i. DY and Me needs a rematch as well heh (ok so I don't like loosing but someone's gotta do it LOL).

yeah, we should do so especially with petrol price has dropped to RM 1.80 per liter now :smokin:

 

[glock_8]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQOqLMHzBtk&feature=related

enjoy!!!

 

[k3nny]

1. Since it is more than just a spring change, please "enlighten me" dear guru on what else was changed? Im talking mechanically. Not aesthetically.

2. How bout this. I have put a BIG @SS GT-WING on my R34 GTR and took it to 300km/h before. Ive tried it with many different wings. Just there is a slight difference but once again, you have deviated from my statements.

I believe we're comparing the aerodynamics of the standard E90 kit and the Sport E90 kit? And i believe my challenge to you was to spot the difference in high speed stability, relative to the cars ability to reach said speeds, in a standard E60 and a sport kitted E60 right?

Can we not deviate and run to R8's and Civic Type R's and Evo X's and even the R35 GTR (just to save you the effort before you respond with some info on the R35 that i already know)

True, a big ass GT wing will make a difference. Will that little flap at the end of your bootlid give you any "response" at all on your butt dyno?

Maybe you will respond with a yes but my guess is most likely due to the sport springs being lower and having a lower center of gravity, it gives you a more secure sense of high speed stability. I had that impression. Then i swapped out the springs on the standard E60 530i for a 2nd hand set of sport springs that my friend was selling from his 525i and voila, now they feel the same all the way up to 200km/h.

3. Since you like the "expensive to maintain" part, i hope she gives you equal amount of pleasure during driving which i believe the BMW can.

4. Once again, you have made an assumption.

You've made the assumption that all the cars are mine and henceforth i am able to trade all of them in for a nice GT2. Believe me, ive dreamt of it before. Sadly they belong to the various drivers in my family (and yes there are many). Mine is only limited to what is in my signature. The rest either belongs to parents/sibiling but doesnt mean i cant and dont drive them on a regular basis.

I dont have a headache choosing. I know what i want and i will buy it, just as you did when you decided on your 325i. But ultimately, my decision to put an M3 kit on it is my perogative.

It doesnt mean im a wannabe as long as i do not put an M3 badge on the car. My taste in aesthetics is purely a personal opinion and as long as i do not pass my car off as something it isnt by labelling it with a badge, i really dont see the issue?

5. I have seen those reviews.

Once again, im not a big fan of reviews. I like to watch reviews to get a "general" opinion on the car. But when it comes to the nitty gritty, id rather take a drive down to my local dealership and take the test drive car for a spin.

Connected to the road yes. On a track, perfect. What about on the roads from Klang - Lumut? Flying over every uneven bridge expansion joint?

At the end of the day, its still all down to your preference. I really believe that no specific "reviewer" has it down to a tee and is able to please the masses. And really, i think YOU should be the one to tell me about HOW connected to the road the car is.

After all the reviewers have spent 1 day? Maybe at most 1 week in that said car?

Whilst you have driven yours in a myriad of situations such as jams, countryside, highways etc right? Dont you think you should be giving the review instead of pointing me to some guy who drove it for a day or two and had to make "first impressions"?

6. I have to admit i can be wrong so please do "enlighten me" and tell me whatelse does the 325i SPORT have over the regular 325i besides different springs MECHANICALLY.

NOT AESTHETICALLY/Interior spec. Only engine, suspension and all mechanicals.

I would really like to know so i dont look foolish the next time i argue without basis so please do "enlighten me". I would be grateful.

7. Bravo glock8. Thats the way. I really think one should test drive every available option out there before making their purchase so that they make an "informed purchase".

After all, its caveat emptor and very rarely caveat vendor right?

8. Precisely. Its a very focused car on one end of the spectrum but what you want to achieve with the 3er's/C-Class is a fine balance of street driveability, city comfort, sh1tty road comfort and all that with enthusiastic driving as well right?

And as such, its much easier to make a FOCUSED machine than one that has the word compromise inside because your level of compromise differs to my level of compromise and everyone elses compromise as well. And as such, we try to determine which manufacturer's "compromise levels" of the many characteristics are able to appeal to a wider range of peoples and as such, would be the better seller.

Of course one can always refer to a FOCUSED machine again and say something like "Range Rover's have good ground clearance. I like ground clearance so i know what i want. Like a Range Rover". duh.

9. Once again, i revert to the word compromise and target market and intended application.

Can we agree that the purpose of a F430 and a Maserati Quattroporte is very very different? Will we agree that they can be used for different purposes?

That fine balance again right with the Quattroporte as opposed to the focused racing car that the F430 is? I was referring to the powerplant. Its the same powerplant, in both the F430 and the Maserati QP.

Thanks for the "enlightenment". Its always good to learn something new.

 

[k3nny]

Then C probably get more stares than you would get in your E60 M sport (for now). Each time I see a white 230V6 AG go by I stare too :love:. Yeah the 230V6 is a little weak on the low end, and I don't think its the 7G tranny. Its not bad, but just not as responsive and punchy as the N52. I find the engine silky smooth though but not a big fan of its characteristics as I like the scream of the N52 at 7k rpms which the Merc was not designed to deliver. The C200k is only 184hp but also pretty impressive torque (blown engine) and is lighter. Hence it feel quite peppy around town, but when pushed, it runs out of breath and sounds like a stressed sewing machine (sorry). But overall I still like the W204 230 V6 AG and prefer it to both the new A4 1.8T or the IS250. The B8 A4 1.8T has only 150+ hp unlike the 325i with 218hp, with similar torque levels 250NM (peaking even lower at 1500 rpms). Hence it gives very good low end grunt.. but fizzles out on the top end. Engine sound also looses out majorly to both the Merc and BMW sixes.

So maybe one of these days, you can bring out the shiny 230V6 and join us in one of our "controlled" tests on a late evening (we've tested with an AMG CLK 55 in one of our sessions before and it ate us up alive!). Its been a while since the boys like DY, Ken, SimonKHW, Michael etc met up and we are still planning for a test session with Mike's 330i vs Ken's 330i. DY and Me needs a rematch as well heh (ok so I don't like loosing but someone's gotta do it LOL).

Most definitely E46F.

Please PM me!

I tried, just with a friend, the other day our Cayenne S against his 645ci.

WOW is all i can say with regards to the 645ci. Very deceiving.

 

[David Yong]

Most definitely E46F.

Please PM me!

I tried, just with a friend, the other day our Cayenne S against his 645ci.

WOW is all i can say with regards to the 645ci. Very deceiving.

Dun forget to call me along k :love:

 

[t2ribena]

kenny...for M-Sport kitted e90, the suspension has the following different parts from the normal e90;

- lower ride height/stiffer spring
- shock absorber with different damping rate/shorter ride height
- stiffer roll bar

i am surprise you found it to have similar ride characteristics even with such different suspension settings...like that all car manufacturer can fire all their suspension design team as it makes no sense to make it differently...

same applies to the e60's

 

[glock_8]

kenny...for M-Sport kitted e90, the suspension has the following different parts from the normal e90;

- lower ride height/stiffer spring
- shock absorber with different damping rate/shorter ride height
- stiffer roll bar

i am surprise you found it to have similar ride characteristics even with such different suspension settings...like that all car manufacturer can fire all their suspension design team as it makes no sense to make it differently...

same applies to the e60's

Well said.

 

[glock_8]

1. Since it is more than just a spring change, please "enlighten me" dear guru on what else was changed? Im talking mechanically. Not aesthetically. as explained by t2ribena. To get the spot on combi of spring rate-damper-sway is not a simple thing to do. U can end up spending thousands of rm to get the right combination of these 3 items and still get it wrong...which is why is am so pleased with the set up the guy at bmw has come out with.

2. How bout this. I have put a BIG @SS GT-WING on my R34 GTR and took it to 300km/h before. Ive tried it with many different wings. Just there is a slight difference but once again, you have deviated from my statements. ok besides those cars u mentioned earlier, we have an addition of R34. I loved this car a lot too bad can't afford it. Like i've mentioned before, we are not a racing driver- this small different in suspension setting, even tyre pressure, or car aerodynamic can only be appreciated by a race car driver. Which is why i rely more of my info from guys like tiff or jason plato (both ex car racer) or the legendary Stig from Top Gear to give a verdict on a car. The Stig is a guise of F1 driver or any pro racer available

I believe we're comparing the aerodynamics of the standard E90 kit and the Sport E90 kit? And i believe my challenge to you was to spot the difference in high speed stability, relative to the cars ability to reach said speeds, in a standard E60 and a sport kitted E60 right? Yeah, you won;t feel it cos u are not the person that fit the criteria of the above comment

Can we not deviate and run to R8's and Civic Type R's and Evo X's and even the R35 GTR (just to save you the effort before you respond with some info on the R35 that i already know) Since you know already then why ask?

True, a big ass GT wing will make a difference. Will that little flap at the end of your bootlid give you any "response" at all on your butt dyno? If you want a butt dyno feel, a trip to a car wash can give you a feel good feeling too...

Maybe you will respond with a yes but my guess is most likely due to the sport springs being lower and having a lower center of gravity, it gives you a more secure sense of high speed stability. I had that impression. Then i swapped out the springs on the standard E60 530i for a 2nd hand set of sport springs that my friend was selling from his 525i and voila, now they feel the same all the way up to 200km/h. wow...that is weird...not only you only swap a partial of thing that make a complete suspension set up, u even getting it from a different model...525 and 530 is not the same model mate. Their weight is different hence different suspension set up..

3. Since you like the "expensive to maintain" part, i hope she gives you equal amount of pleasure during driving which i believe the BMW can. What i meant is, i can live with "expansive to maintain" tag line as apposed to "uncle" tag line

4. Once again, you have made an assumption.

You've made the assumption that all the cars are mine and henceforth i am able to trade all of them in for a nice GT2. Believe me, ive dreamt of it before. Sadly they belong to the various drivers in my family (and yes there are many). Mine is only limited to what is in my signature. The rest either belongs to parents/sibiling but doesnt mean i cant and dont drive them on a regular basis. I am not simply making an assumption - u used a word "my e60 or my what ever car it is" which imply that the cars are all yours. /COLOR]

I dont have a headache choosing. I know what i want and i will buy it, just as you did when you decided on your 325i. But ultimately, my decision to put an M3 kit on it is my perogative. Its up to you mate..its you money anyways

It doesnt mean im a wannabe as long as i do not put an M3 badge on the car. My taste in aesthetics is purely a personal opinion and as long as i do not pass my car off as something it isnt by labelling it with a badge, i really dont see the issue?no issue at all.

5. I have seen those reviews. which word that you don;t understand in that review?

Once again, im not a big fan of reviews. I like to watch reviews to get a "general" opinion on the car. But when it comes to the nitty gritty, id rather take a drive down to my local dealership and take the test drive car for a spin.The review can give you a lot of information that i doubt you yourself will find on your own even till you sell the car back. Do you take the car for test drive on the track and push the car to the limit to find out what the car is capable of? i doubt so and here is where their profesional review counts.

Connected to the road yes. On a track, perfect. What about on the roads from Klang - Lumut? Flying over every uneven bridge expansion joint? I doubt you have seen those two reviews...Jason have driven the car for 1000 over miles in 2 days straight from UK to Spain. He didn't feel aching or overly tired...and he praise the car for being comfortable than the e60. Which i can agree.Richard Hammond said the car more connected, he can feel that he is driving on a asphalt not on marshmellow and he's loving it

At the end of the day, its still all down to your preference. I really believe that no specific "reviewer" has it down to a tee and is able to please the masses. And really, i think YOU should be the one to tell me about HOW connected to the road the car is.

After all the reviewers have spent 1 day? Maybe at most 1 week in that said car?This is not Paul Tan review mate....The 1000++ miles road trip that Jason took is equivalent to 1month of driving. That not inclusive of time they took to gather information on the car

Whilst you have driven yours in a myriad of situations such as jams, countryside, highways etc right? Dont you think you should be giving the review instead of pointing me to some guy who drove it for a day or two and had to make "first impressions"? I second what the reviewer said..BUt this is not about things that you found out after you have purchased the car..we have a look at the review before we buy it because we only have less than 2 hours to test drive them from our local dealer...even so do you really push the car to the limit when you test drive it? i don;t think you can take it to the track right?

6. I have to admit i can be wrong so please do "enlighten me" and tell me whatelse does the 325i SPORT have over the regular 325i besides different springs MECHANICALLY.

NOT AESTHETICALLY/Interior spec. Only engine, suspension and all mechanicals.

I would really like to know so i dont look foolish the next time i argue without basis so please do "enlighten me". I would be grateful.

7. Bravo glock8. Thats the way. I really think one should test drive every available option out there before making their purchase so that they make an "informed purchase".

After all, its caveat emptor and very rarely caveat vendor right?

8. Precisely. Its a very focused car on one end of the spectrum but what you want to achieve with the 3er's/C-Class is a fine balance of street driveability, city comfort, sh1tty road comfort and all that with enthusiastic driving as well right? I never said bmw is superior than the merc..like i said on the prev post and i say it again here, beemer is driver focus while merc is more forgiving (comfortable) its up to the buyer to choose which one suit him.

And as such, its much easier to make a FOCUSED machine than one that has the word compromise inside because your level of compromise differs to my level of compromise and everyone elses compromise as well. And as such, we try to determine which manufacturer's "compromise levels" of the many characteristics are able to appeal to a wider range of peoples and as such, would be the better seller.some buyer don;t want compromise, which is why we have a scuderia or spec C....some prefer a balance of both world..its all depends on individual

Of course one can always refer to a FOCUSED machine again and say something like "Range Rover's have good ground clearance. I like ground clearance so i know what i want. Like a Range Rover". duh.

9. Once again, i revert to the word compromise and target market and intended application.

Can we agree that the purpose of a F430 and a Maserati Quattroporte is very very different? Will we agree that they can be used for different purposes?That is my point...a sport car like F430 is not comfortable...they dont even have a floor carpet....then you came up with masserati and say why is it comfortable which make me confused what actually is your point? and now you mentioned they share the same engine?

That fine balance again right with the Quattroporte as opposed to the focused racing car that the F430 is? I was referring to the powerplant. Its the same powerplant, in both the F430 and the Maserati QP.Offcourse they are the same power plant...many other car even share the same chasis but different purpose...so when is said a sport car is F430 that doesn mean the quartoporte is a sport car too just because it has the same engine...

Thanks for the "enlightenment". Its always good to learn something new.

This can go on and on...but i'm glad we have this healhty discussion...:top:

 

[astroboy]

I don't think the W204 is nicer than the E90 in looks.. to my opinion.

Front: The super huge W204 grille reminds me of the villain in Ninja Turtle.. probably that's what u get when Classy meet Sporty..

Side: The super square and huge side mirror is like taken out from the Honda SUV. The dropped shoulder line is somewhat "weird" and less aggressive compared to the E90 Bangle sand dune shoulder line. Small rear door which I think about the size of a VIOS rear door looks very ungenerous, not the mention the BMW Hoffmeister curve on the rear door is simply SEXY!

Rear: The tail lights reminds me of Savvy.

The bottom of the rear bumper reveals too much of the tyre from the rear, making it look cheap, not sporty, incomplete, like a beach buggy.

...and what's with the many chrome ornaments? chrome metal is used as door protector, chrome on the bumper and side mirror (I think) .. why? Well, I guess the W204 is targetting the bling bling individuals with high profile show off personalties who enjoy show people their fat wallets.. simply not my style..

 

[Schwepps]

Hahahaha! astroboy...always the wackiest comments! :love:

Autozine: http://www.autozine.org/html/Mercedes/C_W204.html

Exerpt: The problem is, the new C-class doesn't look very Mercedes. If we mask its grille, it could be just any Japanese car or even a Hyundai. Why ? because its slim C-pillars do not deliver a solidity feel like Mercedes used to, because the black plastic window frames are more mainstream than unique. On the positive side, the new headlamps are better looking than the previous peanut-shape ones, the clamshell bonnet more stylish, the attention to details are better and the body panels fit more tightly. Overall speaking, W204 is a neat design, if not very Mercedes.

And the one that killed my interest in the W204 immediately: But the engines do not live up the standard of the chassis. Mercedes' engine programs always lag behind vehicle programs. That means the new C-class uses the same engines from the last generation. New engines are not expected until its mid-life makeover.

Now the C63 AMG in the following story...that's a different ball game...but also a different price class.

 

[k3nny]

Schweppes: I guess ultimately to each his own? Im a big lover of BMW's but i would still go the C-Class this time?

The engine however is a different story. Im not a fan there with the trashy engine sound and the weak upper ranges but then again, i didnt buy the car for its power.

I forget, im on a BMW forum.

I expect i might get a different answer elsewhere.

Nonetheless, thanks for your englightenment.

Btw, i can show you a F430 with floor carpets. hehe If im not mistaken, it comes standard? unless in the scuderia.