E36 Anti Roll Bar

[anxious]

I have been doing some research. I discovered that the E36 ARB sizes are as follows:- http://www.vorshlag.com/tech/bars.html E36 Anti-roll Bars Manufacturer..........Front, mm.........Rear, mm..................Notes BMW - 1995 M3..........22.5.................19 BMW - 1996+ M3........23....................20 BMW - 325/328 Base...24....................15 BMW - 325/328 Sport Package 25.5......18 Aftermarket Eibach M3 style..........26....................24........... .......adjustable Eibach 325/328/318....28....................21..................adjustable UUC Motorwerks.........25.4.................23.8...... ............adjustable Turner .....................27....................24.......... ........adjustable RD...........................27................... .22.2..................adjustable Dinan.......................22.2.................. 22.2..................adjustable H&R.........................28.................... 21 ..................adjustable A quote I got from AB Pg on the E36 ARB were:-Front 25.5mm RM790Rear 18 RM714(Thats without bushes) Eng Soon Spore quoted me Eibach Anti Roll Bar KIt $1450 @ about RM3335. I believe the 25.5mm/18mm quoted by AB is the M-Tech ARB. Anyone try this? What is your opinion of M-Tech ARB vs Eibach ARB? I dont track the car. I just want a "tighter feel" when I go around bends. Opinions most welcomed.

 

[anxious]

Also see

Front ARB
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=CB41&mospid=47444&btnr=31_0267&hg=31&fg=10

Rear ARB
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=CB41&mospid=47444&btnr=33_0364&hg=33&fg=45

 

[anxious]

I found some more interesting info:-

I happen to have a 1996 issue of European Car with some info in the Tech Letters section. It isn't everything you are looking for, but it may help.
The sport package or "M Technic" sport package suspension has a front sway bar of 25.5mm vs 24mm for the non-sport. The rear is 18mm for the sport package vs 15mm.
Spring rates were not given but BMW classifies them as "firmer" (obviously in-between the non-sport and M3 spring rates) and lowers the sport package car by 15mm or .6 in below stock.
Shock and strut dampers are mentioned as having sportier calibration (again in between non-sport and M3). The article infers that it is stiffer than the Bilstein HD shocks.
For the 1993 and 1994 325is sport package tire size was 225/55-15 vs 205/60-15 for non-sport. The 1995 325is sport package used the same 16" rim on the 328is sport package-I don't know the tire size though.

see http://www.dtmpower.net/forum/e36-3-series/133605-need-stock-e36-m3-sport-package-rear-springs.html

 

[anxious]

Hmmm, begining to consider a M Tech suspension upgrade for my E36.

The car is only lowered by 15mm as opposed to Eibach's 30mm.

John Burn's in his website stated:-


[SIZE=+1]"Modified Suspension [/SIZE]


The factory produced many sports models and made M-Tech suspension available as an option on others. This is generally an excellent setup which offers improved body control without undue harshness. For everyday use this is preferable to most of the harsher after market systems. I have this on my E30 318iS and can't fault it, it's 15mm lower than a normal E30.

Lowering a BMW with semi-trailing arm rear suspension more than about 25mm will result in too much negative rear camber. Not only will this look odd but you'll wear out the inner edges of the rear tyres quickly. A proper lowering kit for such a car will use offset rear bushings to cancel out some of the camber change.

A kit from a supplier such as Alpina, AC Schnitzer or Dinan will include shocks with custom valving, springs, anti-roll bars and possibly bushings. This will have been track and road tested and will add value to the car. But expect to pay around 1000 GBP for an Alpina suspension kit. For 400ish you'll get a set of lowering springs and quality Bilstein dampers, not a bad option but it may be harsher. Anything cheaper is to be treated with caution. If you just lower the car by cutting the springs you can expect to bottom out the shocks fairly soon.

If all you want to do is reduce understeer then fitting a stiffer rear anti-roll bar from a higher model (i.e. 325i bar in a 328i) is a cheap option. If you don't want to lower the car and are replacing worn shocks I'd suggest Boge Turbo Gas, not dear and they work well with the sotck springs. I have them on my E36.

For track use you can replace the suspension bushings with polyeurathane equivalents, they transmit too much noise for road use though. Another common mod for E30s is to fit E30 M3 front control arm bushings to improve turn in.

Older BMWs benefit from a front strut tower brace, I have one on my 635CSi (E28 Sparco bar fits). But on a modern BMW there is little to be gained by this as the body is more rigid, I'd not waste money on one for an E30 or E36 road car unless I did a lot of track days. One exception is the front subframe cross brace, a lot of E36 318ti drivers say great things about this mod."

see http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/bmw.html

 

[anxious]

Anyone tried M Tech anti roll bars?

Anyone has M Tech suspension?

 

[turbology]

I had use Whiteline, and I love them.
E36 front - BBF39Z - 27mm adjustable
E36 rear - BBR38Z - 22 mm adjustable

I can ask the price for you.

 

[anxious]

Thks Turbology.

What suspension set up do you hv?

Cheers

 

[turbology]

Previous owner put in Hotbits coilover, and strutbar. I guess the swaybar(anti-roll) too.
Cornering is awesome, but straightway is a little bumpy.
I am not complaining. My passengers are.

 

[anxious]

My research has revealed:-

i) the first step in a suspension upgrade is changing the springs (most common Eibach Pro Kit which lowers the car by 30mm)

ii) the springs should be ideally accompanied by sport absobers( porpularly Bilstein Yellow B8)

iii) next would be the anti roll bar ( porpularly Eibach ARB)

iv) next would be a strut bar and in extreme cases strut braces

In my case I had just put in new absobers, mounting etc last year. So a bit sayang to change the absobers/spring now.

Therefore I am toying with changing the ARB to eiher Eibach or M Tech ARBs.

Unfortunately there isnt much feedback on running upgraded ARBs on stock suspension for E36.

Anyone care to share their experience/opinions.

Thanks

 

[Slide]

i'm on mtech arb's and i find the ride firm but not harsh. the problem here is that what i think is fine to me, may not be for you... only way to do this is to try as many cars as you can find. btw my new shocks and springs took 3 months to fully settle down, they were almosy unbearable at first....

 

[anxious]

Thaniks Slide.

How much did your M Tech ARBs cost and where did you get them from?

As you must have noticed I am just obssessed with this thing now.

I've sat in my friend's E36 325i with Eibach+Bilstein+ 16in E46 rims. It was ok.

 

[anxious]

"M" Technic suspension on E36?

"In brief:
- - Spring rates +15% front and rear
- - Shock rates +25% front and rear
- - Drop -15mm front, -10mm rear
- - Front anti-roll bar 24 to 25.5mm
- - Rear anti-roll bar 15 to 18mm"

see http://member.telpacific.com.au/btaylor/BMWText/technical/SuspensionSetupE36.html

How does that compare to Eibac/Bistein set up?

 

[cempaka]

I remember reading a discussion a while ago about upgraded ARB + stock springs/abs on open diff:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113596

 

[anxious]

Thanks Cempaka. The discussion seems to suggest that its ok for street driving.

Anyways, my stock 325i has 24mm in front and 15mm rear ARBs.

Would M Tech 's 25.5mm (F)/18mm(R) make a difference.

Has anyone tried MTech v Eibach ARB.

Does BMW sell an ARB kit?

Thanks

 

[wc9922]

My research has revealed:-

i) the first step in a suspension upgrade is changing the springs (most common Eibach Pro Kit which lowers the car by 30mm)

ii) the springs should be ideally accompanied by sport absobers( porpularly Bilstein Yellow B8)

iii) next would be the anti roll bar ( porpularly Eibach ARB)

iv) next would be a strut bar and in extreme cases strut braces

In my case I had just put in new absobers, mounting etc last year. So a bit sayang to change the absobers/spring now.

Therefore I am toying with changing the ARB to eiher Eibach or M Tech ARBs.

Unfortunately there isnt much feedback on running upgraded ARBs on stock suspension for E36.

Anyone care to share their experience/opinions.

Thanks

Try-lah running big size anti-roll bar with standard suspension.

Your standard damper's stroke will surely destroy your anti-roll bar bracket mounting point in a matter of weeks. Cause there's too much motion. Performance anti-roll bars bigger are meant to be used with short stroke dampers.

If can use without modification or upgrading other suspension bits, BMW already give you mah free.

That's why got M-sports and M3 suspension grades. The higher u go, the higher the spec.

 

[ALBundy]

If you don't track the car or drive it close to the limit, there is no reason to upgrade the ARB. The existing ARBs on your car is set-up to work together with stock suspension. If you want less body-roll while taking corners, lower the CG by using lowering springs like Eibach, H&R, KW and etc. As to which one is best, different strokes for different folks.

To set-up a car is not so straight forward like putting some parts here and there. There has to be a synergy between the parts involved. Anyone here realised, the front Mtec ARB is actually smaller than the ori? Big is not necessary better, but one has to decide what you want the car to be like? Understeer at the limit? Oversteer? Neutral? Then only you decide on the ARB size.



Cheers

 

[cempaka]

While the discussion did say it would probably be ok for street driving, I think the general agreement was also that it wasn't really an ideal setup for improving the handling dynamics of the car. While the main poster's complaints were about track situations, those problems he mentioned will also show up during spirited street driving. Would be a shame to spend a whole lot of money and have your car actually feel less stable at the limit.

I understand your feeling about your absorbers but don't confuse sayang with kiasu and let it get in the way of having a properly set up suspension, after all one year old is hardly brand new. Better in the long run to start properly with a quality springs/abs setup, and sell your stock absorbers. And then pick an ARB based on how you'd like to fine tune the handling at that point.

That said, we'd have nothing to discuss if people didn't try different things and report back how it went. It's your car, in the end it's up to you to decide the best course of action.

Also M Tech IS bmw, so yes they do sell an ARB kit. :smile: Unless you mean their pure motorsport "Gruppe" parts, which are incredibly expensive.

 

[fabianyee]

Mr Kan Cheong,

The more u go into paper research, the more headaches you have... Go and test ride cars with different suspension combination... I have been thru different combination on my E30, and I can tell you there's a lot of factors to consider... like softer springs doesn't mean it's be comfy if you don't have the right shocks to go together with it... It'll make it crashy... bla bla bla...

As for your quest for antiroll bars, if you're not into serious cornerings, then it wouldn't really make a difference... If you are, then better to go for lowered springs and shocks and then matching antiroll bars.

 

[anxious]

Thks Cempaka & Fabian.

Well after all that reading, I guess that the best thing to do is just dump my current absorbers/spring and get the Bilstein/Eibach combo.

Anyway it was an educational experience and I hope all those reading this thread learnt something about suspension upgrades.

Cheers guys.

 

[anxious]

The quote I got from Bavarian Auto is as follows:-

M-TECH SUSPENSION

i)Mtech Anti Roll Bars & Links (F) & (R)
– RM750 each (Front MTech ARB)
– RM54 each (Front ARB Link)
– RM62 each (Front ARB Rubber Bush)

– RM690 each (Rear MTech ARB)
– RM32 each (Rear ARB Link)
– RM19 each (Rear ARB Rubber Bush)

ii) Mtech Springs– RM2,100 (set of 4)
iii) MTECH Absorbers – RM4,000 (set of 4)
(some parts no stock,need to order)


AFTERMARKET

i) Eibach ARB– RM3,700 ( front & rear, with ARB links and PU Bushes)
ii) Eibach Pro Kit Spring– RM1,960 (set of 4)
iii) Bilstein yellow B8 – RM1,930 (set of 4)


The quote I got from Eng Soon Singapore is as follows:-

M-TECH

3135 1 090 182 stay bar F. @ S$260.00 no stock
3135 1 090 268 stay bush F. @ S$18.00 x 2pcs
3135 1 137 986 stay bar RR. @ S$230.00 no stock
3355 1 138 104 stay bush RR. @ S$6.00 x 2pcs
3131 1 091 269 Absorber F.LH @ S$320.00 no stock
3131 1 091 270 Absorber F.RH @ S$320.00 no stock
3352 1 090 831 Absorber RR. @ S$220.00 x 2pcs no stock
3133 1 090 769 Spring F. @ S$180.00 x 2pcs no stock
3353 9 059 282 Spring RR. @ S$330.00 per set no stock

AFTERMARKET

(i) Eibach Pro Kit Springs @ S$340.00 @RM782
(ii) Bilstein Yellows Absorbers(B6 vs B8)
Front @ S$260.00 x 2pcs B8
Rear @ S$155.00 X 2pcs B8 @ RM1909 per set

(iii)Eibach Anti Roll Bar KIt @ S$1450.00 @RM3335


EIBACH SINGAPORE

Eibach ARB Kit $1020/set @RM2346
(Eibach Spore informed me that I can upgrade my ARB w/o changing my suspension)

I hope that the above information is useful to fellow forumers who may be considering upgrading their stock suspension.