The big debate on RWD vs FWD....

[E46Fanatic]

Just read the latest issue of BMW Magazine where they did a feature on this season's WTCC, and the Schitzner E46 320i (275hp) and how Dirk/Jorg Muller pretty much tar pau'ed the competition. As a result of the sheer domination of the BMWs in WTCC, the FIA had to change rules mid season to give a 20kgs weight advantage to FWD cars (ahem no names mentioned here ).... to make things more competitive...Even with this new ruling Dirk/Jorg Muller still managed to score wins over the FWD rivals..I think this puts to rest, the whole debate of FWD vs RWD and 50/50 weight distribution .. bla bla bla...

 

[kelvinp]

even me being an amateur RWD driver finds that FWD has lots of understeer during fast tight sweepers. RWD maintains front-end traction.. though i havent lost my tail yet before

 

[cyberburnner]

so does it mean that fwd is disadvantaged on the track compared to rwd? given that both cars hav same engine capacity, weight, but 1 is FR the other 1 is FF. how to compare?

however, i personally feel that FF is advantaged in a hillclimb compared to a FR. agreed? and the other way round in d event of a downhill race.

opinions pls ..........

 

[535i]

Originally posted by kelvinp@Nov 20 2005, 12:54 AM
even me being an amateur RWD driver finds that FWD has lots of understeer during fast tight sweepers. RWD maintains front-end traction.. though i havent lost my tail yet before

Haaa .. base on ur 'Model' ur driving the M40 E30 ...

Watch out ur tail ...

Ppl said, u are not a BMW driver until u lost ur tail ..

Ask that guy .. with the fav word .. Ammmaaakkkkkkkk !!!!

 

[Jules]

FWD? good for the road and for my mrs...

RWD? good for me.....anywhere.

Drive safely in both! but guess which one is safer NORMALY?

Oh yes Kev, have not lost ur tail? try it in a wet cement carpark.....dun say I never warn u.

Cyber? I think u should think again....I never hear FF winning big in hill climbs. downhill? it's FRONT brakes and weight distribution to win.

Just my 2 cents!

 

[535i]

Most high performance cars ( I said most aaaa .. not all) are RWD ....
That shud xplain it ....

Question :

If u are driving a FWD car and it goes oversteer .. do u counter like u r driving a RWD car ???

 

[Jules]

535...

yes, if you go into oversteer on the FWD cars - yes, the counter steering is the same like in RWD......

but most will lose it cos they dun expect it to happen unless u did that on purpose! ( lift-off oversteer or e-brake style...)

I no pro, so dun blame me if u face wrong way!.....

 

[supergripen]

the weight penalty for rwd cars in wtcc says it all... if not,no contest!!!!

 

[Jipster]

Since I started driving I have been driving FWD cars.....

My E30 is the first RWD car I have owned and driven on a daily basis...... despite the E30s tendency for tail out wrong-ness when you misjudge corner entry speed, I feel more secure/confident in it..... this is despite having owned and driven a fairly comptent FWD car before e.g. Peugeot 306..... RWD has my vote!

 

[DingChavez]

ALL HAIL DANCING POTATO!!!!!!

sorry cant help it :blush:

On a serious note....

most modern road going cars, be it FWD or RWD are built to understeer in corners. this is because of safety. see, as normal human beings with normal driving skills (not godlike - ie this rule does not apply to The Necc) its easier to control understeer than oversteer.

example... if you are turning left and the car understeers ie not turning enough, nromal reaction would be to dethrottle and turn in somemore... but how many of us, taking the same turn and the car snaps, would intuitively countersteers ie to right to catch the oversteer? All in the name of safety, my friends...

That said, RWD is still more fun to drive IMHO, since the steering feel is sweet and not corrupted. FWD is more compact and uses less space and waste less energy, but not as sweet.....

my two australian dollars

 

[Jipster]

Not godlike.......

 

[Jules]

Originally posted by DingChavez@Nov 21 2005, 10:03 AM
... but how many of us, taking the same turn and the car snaps, would intuitively countersteers ie to right to catch the oversteer? All in the name of safety, my friends...

well said but I think most of us know how to counter steer BUT the hardest bit is HOW MUCH to counter steer! ( in proportion to the angle, throttle, speed, width of TRACK/road, what's around you etc etc )

I am still learning......

 

[E46Fanatic]

Originally posted by Jules@Nov 20 2005, 09:43 PM

well said but I think most of us know how to counter steer BUT the hardest bit is HOW MUCH to counter steer! ( in proportion to the angle, throttle, speed, width of TRACK/road, what's around you etc etc )

I am still learning......

I learned the hard way... When I started to loose the rear end of my Civic SiR in Sepang, I made a big mistake to get off the throttle during a counter steer, which only resulted in the sliding backend catching the tarmac rocketing the car and me to the barriers in the direction of the counter steer... On a FWD car, keep the throttle planted as the tail slides...

 

[Jipster]

Originally posted by Jules+Nov 20 2005, 09:43 PM-->QUOTE (Jules @ Nov 20 2005, 09:43 PM)

 

[three28]

Rear wheel!!!! Rear wheel!!!! Rear wheel!!!! :nyehehe:

 

[Jules]

yes, a ROAD car is harder to catch cos the suspension/seats dulls the feedback from the road.....

Driving a RWD on the limit takes respect, skill with consideration to your setup & place/condition. Drive safely.

 

[fabianyee]

FWD is better in snow and muddy condition. a RWD will not do well in the snow and mud.

My personal opinion is leaning on an oversteering car. An understeering car is just not fun to drive. Even with my old Suzuki Swift GL(1.0), I have managed to oversteer the car even though it's a FWD.. That car have been lowered and equipped with front strut bar, that has done wonders by reducing a lot of understeer. Could do better though if the car comes with antiroll bars which is now absent from the chassis.

A stock E30 still understeer when pushed. I have gone thru the stages from bone stock suspension to what it is now so I know the rewards from each stage.
The things that I have loaded: (based on chronological order)
1. Lowered springs.
2. front strut bar
3. rear strut bar
4. rear antiroll bar
5. aftermarket front and rear anti-roll bars.
6. custom made front camber plates.
7. custom made front lower control arm bracket with PU insert.
8. custom made rear pillowball topmount

u may not follow my route for suspension upgrades but do consider the first 4 items on the list. it was sufficient to put smile on me after every corner but then it got even better when I continue with 5 then 6 then 7 and 8.....

for those of u wanting to acquire the reflexes needed to counter an oversteer, go for go-karting. i got my instinct from there.. although the steering feel is different but that's a start. the point is getting to know when ur tail is coming loose.

Another way to train ur brain on minute change of direction is to take the Putra LRT. stand up right without holding onto anything and try to balance urself when it moves thru its underground route. I do this everytime I get on the LRT. hahahhaa.. it's a way to kill time and at the same time working out the brain... try doing that with ur eyes closed. even better.

 

[flash]

Originally posted by fabianyee@Nov 21 2005, 04:28 PM
FWD is better in snow and muddy condition. a RWD will not do well in the snow and mud.

Yup, I know of one fellow forummer whose BMW got stuck in the mud once.... .

I too prefer the handling characteristics of a RWD car.... understeer is so boring....

 

[DingChavez]

Originally posted by flash@Nov 21 2005, 04:34 PM
I too prefer the handling characteristics of a RWD car.... understeer is so boring....

borring.... but safe

yeah, i do enjoy oversteer... but now too long not driving competitively. butt dyno and butt g meter already dull need to re calibrate...

 

[Jules]

Fabian...RACUN king huh! good feedback anyhow!

Wah ur LRT mental training thingy will freak all standing beside me....cos I will fall with eyes clothes and ter-raba female species beside me!!! he he he