Rally Drivers better than F1 Drivers?

[E46Fanatic]

Sebastien Loeb wins Race of ChampionsShowing the way to Albers, Coulthard and MassaSebastien Loeb takes all at Stade de France Light rain made the kilometre purpose built circuit within Stade de France slippery but if anyone could cope with such conditions it was World Rally Champion Sebastien Loeb who took away Heikki Kovalainen's crown of Champion of Champions this evening in Paris. Kovalainen, now confirmed as test driver with the Renault F1 squad in 2006, put on a great show as he attempted to defend his crown The Finn took on and beat new Ferrari signing Felipe Massa before being eliminated by this year's Le Mans winner Tom Kristensen, who in turn eliminated many big names in the competition including the likes of David Coulthard and Nelson Piquet Jr only to lose out at the final hurdle. The finale came down to a shoot out between Loeb and Kristensen with the WRC Champion taking the win in the super-powerful Renault Megane Trophy car and then sealing the victory as Kristensen went off track in the Citroen Xsara WRC. Sebastien Bourdais, the double winner in the Champ Car World Series put in a great show eliminating his US open wheel rival and IRL IndyCar Champion Dan Wheldon with ease only to lose out against NASCAR star Jeff Gordon. Gordon himself could have and perhaps should have challenged for the ultimate win by a gearbox gremlin saw him stranded on the line in the semi-finals against Kristensen. New MF1 Racing signing Christijan Albers had a short run as he went off early on after a gearbox problem in the RoC machine resulted in the Dutch driver nosing the car heavily into the barriers. Once again the annual Race of Champions event drew a huge crowd and provided plant of entertainment with the big names in motorsport. In a dream season for Sebastien Loeb, he can add the Race of Champions 2005 to his ever impressive resume. Heats RoC - Jeff Gordon Vs Christijan AlbersThe newly-signed MF1 racer ended his chances of success just after taking the intermediate sector as he nosed his white RoC car into the tyres and out of the event. First blood to the NASCAR driver. RoC - Sebastien Bourdais Vs Dan Wheldon (Wild Card) Bourdais dominated Wheldon – perhaps thanks to his extra track time in the Nations Cup. Bourdais cruised to an easy win ahead of his US open-wheel rival by over three seconds. RoC - Nelson Piquet Jr Vs Mattias Ekstrom An aggressive start from Piquet and enjoyed a half second advantage at the intermediate section, extending the advantage to over a second by the chequered flag. Ekstrom does not make the quarter finals after winning the Nations Cup earlier today. RoC - David Coulthard Vs Tom KristensenCoulthard picked up a yellow after clipping the wall and was 0.2s down at the intermediate. Kristensen would take the win and eliminate the Red Bull driver from the competition. Porsche - Marcus Gronholm Vs Stephane Peterhansel A close race with Peterhansel holding the initial advantage but Gronholm took the race win with a strong final lap. RoC - Heikki Kovalainen Vs Bernd SchneiderLast year's Champion of Champions Kovalainen enjoyed a comfortable lead at the mid-way point and with no mistakes this time, took the win from the DTM driver by nearly four seconds. Xsara WRC - Francois Duval Vs Daniel Sordo (Wild Card) Duval made a slow start, hit the wall with his right rear as the WRC driver pushed on. Race over for Duval. RoC - Jean Alesi Vs Felipe MassaFormer Ferrari driver taking on the future Ferrari racer saw Alesi pushing hard but giving second best to Massa, losing time in a big power slide in the final turn. Porsche - Colin McRae Vs Armin SchwarzA big save from Schwarz as he pushed hard was not enough to give him the win as McRae beat his Skoda team-mate for the second time today. Sebastien Loeb Vs Travis PastranaLoeb takes victory putting out the American. RoC – Sebastien Bourdais Vs Jeff GordonGordon wins after an aggressive drive. The Champ Car driver beaten fair and square. Xsara WRC – Sebastien Loeb Vs Travis PastranaNothing in it at the intermediate but the 2005 WRC Champion would take the win as Pastrana backed the Citroen into the wall. An impressive performance from the motocross rider non-the-less. RoC - Nelson Piquet Jr – Vs Tom KristensenThe GP2 racer enjoyed many big slides in the tricky damp conditions as Kristensen continued his unbeaten run to take the win by half a second. Quarter FinalsMegan – Heikki Kovalainen Vs Felipe MassaLast year's champion had a tenth in hand at the intermediate, extending the advantage to nearly a second by the chequered flag. Xsara WRC – Daniel Sordo Vs Marcus GronholmGronholm dominated the heat to take the win by two seconds to make the semi finals. Megan - Jeff Gordon Vs Tom KristensenThe American was left on the grid with a gear-shift failure meaning his race was over. There really should have been a re-run but a great shame after a great challenge from the NASCAR driver. Xsara WRC – Sebastien Loeb Vs Colin McRaeA great start from Loeb saw him have the initial advantage but it was McRae who led at the intermediate only for Loeb to take the win by nearly a second. Semi FinalsMegan – Heikki Kovalainen Vs Tom KristensenA smooth race from both that saw Kristensen take the win by just 0.0067s from last year's champion… Kovalainen is out. Xsara WRC - Sebastien Loeb Vs Marcus GronholmThe WRC Champion had a 1.2 second advantage at the intermediate, and he would win by 2.5s despite a brush with the wall that would damage the rear lights on his Citroen. Super Final Megan – Tom Kristensen Vs Sebastien Loeb – Heat 1/3After a practice lap for each in unfamiliar machinery – the finale got underway with both making a good start and Kristensen leading by 0.3 at the intermediate but it was Loeb that got a better exit on the final turn to take the race win. Xsara WRC - Tom Kristensen Vs Sebastien Loeb – Heat 2/3Loeb, firm favourite in the Rally car, won with ease as Kristensen found himself atop of the barriers just seconds into the event. Sebastien Loeb wins the Champion of Champions.

 

[Jules]

You doubt this? WRC drivers are the BEST drivers on this planet....period.

The risk they take is second to none - even if they use pace notes, do recce before, use gravel crews and have helicopters in front of them on the SS.

See Corsica rally, in fact all of them esp in car video's then you know why.....

oh yes, off topic - Paris Dakar bike riders, IOM TT & Macau GP bike riders have bigger balls though....dunno if brain less also.

 

[saat]

Originally posted by Jules@Dec 5 2005, 11:41 AM
You doubt this? WRC drivers are the BEST drivers on this planet....period.

The risk they take is second to none - even if they use pace notes, do recce before, use gravel crews and have helicopters in front of them on the SS.

See Corsica rally, in fact all of them esp in car video's then you know why.....

oh yes, off topic - Paris Dakar bike riders, IOM TT & Macau GP bike riders have bigger balls though....dunno if brain less also.

NO I DONT AGREE. Rally drivers are not the best drivers in the world. Taxi drivers are.

The reason why rally driver will beat an F1 driver in a head-to-head is their balls. All rally drivers are 3/4 crazy. Rally drivers have keen senses and lightning reflexes and thet can work in very hostile environment. They charge into a corner and then decide what to do. They are good at managing deviations. An F1 driver will decide what to do then go into a corner. Rain, Mud, Rocks, Trees, Precipice, Jumps - throw it at them and the rally drivers drive their best. take them out of this and put them into an F1 circuit for a short race and they will beat the pants off an F1 driver.

F1 drivers drive fast in a calculated and sterile environment. An F1 driver can sustain a high level of pace for long periods but they manage deviations very poorly. Give them inclement weather conditions - the safety cars come out.

The best drivers in the world are TAXI drivers. They do this every day for hours on end and cheat you out of your money doing it. None of the above two can do this. They will both fail.

 

[flash]

Originally posted by saat@Dec 5 2005, 12:11 PM
the best drivers in the world are TAXI drivers. They do this evry day for hours on end and chest your money doing it. None of the above can do this. They will both fail.

You forgot about the BMW drivers.... Bas Mini Wilayah drivers.They can get to your destination on time in spite of the KL bottlenecks. :rofl:

 

[Jules]

you guys make me laugh.....okay, I reword - WRC drivers = best motorsports drivers!

taxi drivers.....most street wise drivers, no doubt.

 

[fabianyee]

Rally drivers have keen senses and lightning reflexes and thet can work in very hostile environment. They charge into a corner and then decide what to do. They are good at managing deviations. An F1 driver will decide what to do then go into a corner. Rain, Mud, Rocks, Trees, Precipice, Jumps - throw it at them and the rally drivers drive their best. take them out of this and put them into an F1 circuit for a short race and they will beat the pants off an F1 driver.

F1 drivers drive fast in a calculated and sterile environment. An F1 driver can sustain a high level of pace for long periods but they manage deviations very poorly. Give them a inclement weather conditions - the safety cars come out.

I don't think rally driver "charge into a corner and then decide what to do." They set up the car for the corner based on the pace note. Definitely not 'charge into a corner and then decide what to do', cos that'll be too late especially in the malaysia oil palm estates.

 

[PiedPiper]

Hahaha... how true! Taxi and bus mini drivers are the best!

There have been a few F1 drivers that turned to rally for off season drives. They do quite well but their reflexes don't seem to be as fast. I think I saw Massa tackle the rally Super Special Stage once and he gave a really good show.

WRC drivers got no balls, hence they are not scared of anything! That's why they are so good!

 

[flash]

Originally posted by fabianyee@Dec 5 2005, 03:03 PM

Rally drivers have keen senses and lightning reflexes and thet can work in very hostile environment. They charge into a corner and then decide what to do. They are good at managing deviations. An F1 driver will decide what to do then go into a corner. Rain, Mud, Rocks, Trees, Precipice, Jumps - throw it at them and the rally drivers drive their best. take them out of this and put them into an F1 circuit for a short race and they will beat the pants off an F1 driver.

F1 drivers drive fast in a calculated and sterile environment. An F1 driver can sustain a high level of pace for long periods but they manage deviations very poorly. Give them a inclement weather conditions - the safety cars come out.

I don't think rally driver "charge into a corner and then decide what to do." They set up the car for the corner based on the pace note. Definitely not 'charge into a corner and then decide what to do', cos that'll be too late especially in the malaysia oil palm estates.

Agreed, rally drivers to not charge into corners and then decide what to do. They have their navigators telling them in advance what to expect over the next few corners and the drivers set up their cars in such a way to take the next few corners at speeds safely.... the drivers are always thinking ahead and that is why they have the pace notes.

 

[E46Fanatic]

You think replacing Alex Yoong with Karamjit Singh for A1 will help?

 

[flash]

Originally posted by E46Fanatic@Dec 5 2005, 03:59 PM
You think replacing Alex Yoong with Karamjit Singh for A1 will help?

Maybe.... at least Karamjit is winning races.... too bad he cannot secure sponsorships to continue on his exploits....

 

[OSFlanker]

Don't forget most rallies are timed stages, whereas circuit racing are free for all, bumper to bumper stuff. A lot of rally drivers won't be so good after they get roughed up a bit by touring car drivers!

Of course being rally drivers, they can probably adapt very fast to the new environment. Horses for courses apply.

 

[Jules]

yawn...OSF you have a fetish for Touring Car drivers hah!

Touring Car drivers are mean, aggressive and dun give 2nd tot on panel bashing..... which is not possible in F1.

You are correct on timed sections but dun forget the special stages they run in Stadiums with cars running side by side - that's the closest they come to bashing...unless the front car is so slow and caught in the SS.

I still think with their great car control - they can easily adapt to BASHING mode too......they got many practise with the trees, rocks, walls, bridges and the odd spectator or two!... ;(

 

[OSFlanker]

Jules, what I mean is that in wheel to wheel racing (not necessarily panel bashing), different skills set come into the equation. As seen in F1 (and all the way down to karting), a driver can drive a very fast lap in clear traffic, but they can't overtake for sh1t or they buckle under the pressure when in heavy traffic (wheel to wheel racing lah).

I believe this is the mental side of racing, which not all rally drivers may possess (not even all F1 drivers have the mental side sorted out too i.e. Webber and Ralf Schuey). Of course Loeb also races in Le Mans, and I believe he is a very good driver and racer.

It would have been more interesting if Valentino Rossi had taken part in the Race of Champions too. He is no slouch on 4 wheels!

 

[tyke]

Originally posted by flash+Dec 5 2005, 03:01 AM-->QUOTE (flash @ Dec 5 2005, 03:01 AM)

 

[Zoggee]

Originally posted by E46Fanatic@Dec 5 2005, 05:29 PM
You think replacing Alex Yoong with Karamjit Singh for A1 will help?

but I remembered once..

when Karamjit Singh told to me(at Kulim ,Kedah R.O.M ) he got bored driving in the track..like sepang circuit wor... He said that he will get bored after two rounds... :blush:

and that nice ci.pek oso pow.ed my ciggies. :beaten:

 

[saat]

Originally posted by fabianyee@Dec 5 2005, 03:03 PM

Rally drivers have keen senses and lightning reflexes and thet can work in very hostile environment. They charge into a corner and then decide what to do. They are good at managing deviations. An F1 driver will decide what to do then go into a corner. Rain, Mud, Rocks, Trees, Precipice, Jumps - throw it at them and the rally drivers drive their best. take them out of this and put them into an F1 circuit for a short race and they will beat the pants off an F1 driver.

F1 drivers drive fast in a calculated and sterile environment. An F1 driver can sustain a high level of pace for long periods but they manage deviations very poorly. Give them a inclement weather conditions - the safety cars come out.

I don't think rally driver "charge into a corner and then decide what to do." They set up the car for the corner based on the pace note. Definitely not 'charge into a corner and then decide what to do', cos that'll be too late especially in the malaysia oil palm estates.

I didnt win any stages but that is what me and many other rally drivers do on every corner. We dont have time to think too much and calculate speed, angle of attack, road condition et al. Every corner (even with pace notes) is a leap of faith. We attack first.

 

[Jules]

Originally posted by OSFlanker@Dec 5 2005, 05:25 PM
It would have been more interesting if Valentino Rossi had taken part in the Race of Champions too. He is no slouch on 4 wheels!

Actually he did.....a few years back when this event was held in the Cannary Islands. He was no slouch and this is why he is considering a move to rallying.....F1 aslo on cards apparently.

 

[flash]

Originally posted by saat@Dec 5 2005, 11:02 PM
Every corner (even with pace notes) is a leap of faith. We attack first.

Leap of blind faith.... did that once and I found myself heading into a ditch.... :beaten: Ouch.

 

[okow]

Originally posted by Jules@Dec 5 2005, 03:41 AM

oh yes - Paris Dakar bike riders, IOM TT & Macau GP bike riders have bigger balls though....dunno if brain less also.

:yes!:

 

[saat]

Originally posted by okow+Dec 6 2005, 03:40 PM-->QUOTE (okow @ Dec 6 2005, 03:40 PM)