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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lee36328" data-source="post: 68534" data-attributes="member: 113">The Necessary,Am pleased to see you have moderated your response to a level that actually conveys your point passionately without crossing the line into being what some may find a tad obnoxious and therefore blurring the point you are trying to make, and I look forward to a constructive discussion.  Your points are indeed valid, and I have been giving the matter a great deal of thought.  Your concern about the SAFETY of the members as the main driver of your passionate argument is indeed laudable, and I applaud you and support you wholeheartedly on this concern.  For instance, I too am of the personal opinion that DIY in various areas of the MODding (including foaming, where the earlier part fo this thread discussed sourcing their own foam and injecting it DIY), must be undertaken w great care in order not to compromise the car, and I would not install things in my car that I didn't understand or not convinced that they work or performed by anyone other than people who know what they are doing... so, admirable motivation indeed, my fellow forummer.  And by the way, both civility and intelligence are desirable regardless of make or brand, but certainly, if this was TOKKINGKOK.COM, I can dish out the colourful expletives just as well as I can receive them.  Civility is simply part of being civilised and is a hallmark of intelligence as well, not just to be highbrow or to show off... but then that's just my opinion.  Back to the topic at hand, I do indeed see where your point is valid.  Strengthening the chassis excessively would affect how it behaves during impact.  At different impact force/speed, the safe/ideal crumple zone strength would be different (as far as I can tell from my googling, not claiming to be expert here).  For instance, a crumple zone which withstands up to 40 kmh at impact would be inadequate at say 100 kmh, i.e., too soft.  Therefore, I postulate that the limited extra strength, and very minimal weight, of the foam in the front part of the chassis, would increase the strength of the crumple zone only marginally, making it withstand slightly higher impact force.  PROVIDED that the front chassis in the crumple zone if UNIFORMLY STRENGTHENED, the predesigned crumple points should not move, but only crumple under slightly increased force.Secondly, if only the front of the chassis, within the crumple zone, was foamed, or if the foaming was incomplete with trapped air pockets at several points of the chassis, then you are right in the arguments you raised.  The chassis always seeks the weakest point to bend in an impact, and these points are pre-loaded as part of the crumple zone design, and foaming it this way may compromise that design.I actually discussed this with the dealer prior to foaming my chassis. The following diagram is loaded for illustration. (I'll get a better diagram shortly where I'll illustrate the parts that were actually foamed, and we can both see and form an opinion on it.)  I was convinced at the completeness and thoroughness of the foaming in that the chassis is strengthened uniformly from front to end, but we shall see.  I'll revisit this point again with the supplier.You're right to say the manufacturers actually also use foaming to a limited extent.  I have come across this as well.  But to use your argument that if it were so good, why aren't all manufacturers using it extensively and completely, one could say the same about (and here we go again)... performance air filter, voltage stabilizer, grounding cable, iridium spark plugs, etc... one gets the drift.  I happen to use all the products, and can see and feel the difference in performance, fuel consumption, smoothness of revving, etc, to various degrees of effectiveness.  So, just because the manufacturers are just using foaming lightly in some areas does not automatically mean we can't improve upon it further by using it more.  If the manufacturers are not using foaming at all, this point would be strengthened, actually. Finally, bear in mind that the extent and location of foaming is the CUSTOMER'S choice, a point which may have been obscured in our discussion.  I believe in it, and thus foamed every foamable part (except the c-pillar, where I believe the foaming wud not help that much).  The customer can pick and choose where to foam, according to preference and budget and degree of 'wantoness'.  By all means avoid the crumple zone if in doubt.   :dunno:   Or, if in greater doubt, avoid foaming altogether...  the customer's choice.... which is the great thing about our free society.Thanks for the debate, which serves to shed more light on an interesting topic, and hopefully others can benefit as well from what we've been discussing.Musclehedz, foaming for ICE???  And not for handling???  Are you kidding me??? I think it's time i take you for a ride in my car again...  :yes:</blockquote>

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