E46 328 ms42 turbo tuning

[zam zainal]

Hi Guys,Does anyone knew on tuning the MS42 DME? I've had most of the 'hardwares' but the tuning part make me headache!

 

[ALBundy]

What type of software do you intend to use? Do you intend to use a standalone, piggyback or re-flash the existing siemens ECU?

 

[zam zainal]

What type of software do you intend to use? Do you intend to use a standalone, piggyback or re-flash the existing siemens ECU?

Hi Bos,

Whats the most reliable tune? For the long run la because i'm planning to boost at 0.5 bar only!

Can it be stock ecu with piggyback?

 

[zam zainal]

What type of software do you intend to use? Do you intend to use a standalone, piggyback or re-flash the existing siemens ECU?

Bos,

PM me your full quot on the piggyback the stock ECU,.its easier that way.
When i'm done with the hardware, i'll send over the car to you..

 

[ramsing]

u should aim for tuning via the stock ecu. that's the best option. piggybacks dont work well because its trying to cheat the system, which over time will revert back towards stock. if u run standalone, be prepared for a lot of checklights and/or daily driving issues. unless the car is a track/fun car, then its ok.

i'm not sure if there's any stock ecu tuners in m'sia, singapore might have one or two.

but what turbo u're running? 0.5 bar is still dependent on the size of ur turbo. what's u're power goals?

 

[puginfo]

since the goal is just about 0.5 bar (7.5psi) its probably cost effective to keep the original ecu and around altering the fuel map while maintaining the current ignition map. intercooling must also be addressed if not you end up using more fuel to avoid detn.

for minor alteration on the fuel map, you can add the P-FCON injector control module wired and plumbed with an extra injector located just before throttle body. so all of these has to be thot of now as it will effect yr hardware setup which you are now at. assuming you are doing a bolt on job, yr CR is at 10.2 now so this task has to be done very-very carefully!

 

[ramsing]

since the goal is just about 0.5 bar (7.5psi) its probably cost effective to keep the original ecu and around altering the fuel map while maintaining the current ignition map. intercooling must also be addressed if not you end up using more fuel to avoid detn.

for minor alteration on the fuel map, you can add the P-FCON injector control module wired and plumbed with an extra injector located just before throttle body. so all of these has to be thot of now as it will effect yr hardware setup which you are now at. assuming you are doing a bolt on job, yr CR is at 10.2 now so this task has to be done very-very carefully!

this depends on the hardware, ie size of turbo etc. if he uses a gt40 at 0.5 bar, this wont be enuf. but this method is just a bandaid to get the fueling right. better option is to get it right from the start, tuning is the most critical part to the problem.

 

[puginfo]

this depends on the hardware, ie size of turbo etc. if he uses a gt40 at 0.5 bar, this wont be enuf. but this method is just a bandaid to get the fueling right. better option is to get it right from the start, tuning is the most critical part to the problem.

this band aid is to maintain the original ecu and to keep the cost down. what is yr definition of
" better option is to get it right from the start" can you explain?

 

[zam zainal]

u should aim for tuning via the stock ecu. that's the best option. piggybacks dont work well because its trying to cheat the system, which over time will revert back towards stock. if u run standalone, be prepared for a lot of checklights and/or daily driving issues. unless the car is a track/fun car, then its ok.

i'm not sure if there's any stock ecu tuners in m'sia, singapore might have one or two.

but what turbo u're running? 0.5 bar is still dependent on the size of ur turbo. what's u're power goals?

I'am totally agree with you bro, its easier to tune the stock ecu rather than bolt on.

As for this small project, I'm planning to use a turbine T3 models, i believe from RB25DET, not sure the details spec, and trying to achieve a modest 250hp from the stock engine, while boosting at 0.5. Just to feel the kick of it when its spool.

 

[ALBundy]

Zam, you the headers and piping all done?

To tune stock ecu may not be as easy as it seems. The tuner must be well versed with the various maps stored in the ECU. There are more than 60 over maps and he has to extract the right map and then key in the proper values. And that involved a lot of guesswork as well. Most of the tuners have a ready map for specific application like the type of turbine you using, headers and etc.

If you plan to keep the cost down the easiest way is either to install an adjustable fuel regulator (popular with the mosselman turbo those days) or an Unichip Piggyback with boost controller (all in 2500).

 

[zam zainal]

since the goal is just about 0.5 bar (7.5psi) its probably cost effective to keep the original ecu and around altering the fuel map while maintaining the current ignition map. intercooling must also be addressed if not you end up using more fuel to avoid detn.

for minor alteration on the fuel map, you can add the P-FCON injector control module wired and plumbed with an extra injector located just before throttle body. so all of these has to be thot of now as it will effect yr hardware setup which you are now at. assuming you are doing a bolt on job, yr CR is at 10.2 now so this task has to be done very-very carefully!

by adding the controller (P-FCON), bypass the stock ECU signal?

 

[zam zainal]

Zam, you the headers and piping all done?

To tune stock ecu may not be as easy as it seems. The tuner must be well versed with the various maps stored in the ECU. There are more than 60 over maps and he has to extract the right map and then key in the proper values. And that involved a lot of guesswork as well. Most of the tuners have a ready map for specific application like the type of turbine you using, headers and etc.

If you plan to keep the cost down the easiest way is either to install an adjustable fuel regulator (popular with the mosselman turbo those days) or an Unichip Piggyback with boost controller (all in 2500).

Bos,

The header and piping not yet la.. but most other stuff i've in stock.. getting it from here and there..

 

[ALBundy]

It will be a challenge to fabricate the headers as yours is a right hand drive unless the turbine is mounted at the top behind the right headlight.

 

[ramsing]

this band aid is to maintain the original ecu and to keep the cost down. what is yr definition of
" better option is to get it right from the start" can you explain?

i meant getting the stock ecu to be tuned. problem is, as bundy mentioned, is getting a competent tuner. i heard SG has one which has done some s/c bmws. running a piggy back with extra injector is not the most optimum solution.

bypassing the ecu might trigger safety cuts by the ecu, like going in limp mode etc. not sure how the system runs in M54s.

250hp is not the issue, but running a turbo where the tq comes in early might need some work on the ignition, not only fueling. u might escape with supercharging though

 

[puginfo]

so i guess thats why the rule no.1 stays :

"do not boost a NA engine"

..........if cost is prohibitive to do it right. lets see where Zam gets with his venture.

 

[ALBundy]

I have built a turbo kit for my previous e36 with m42 engine, needless to say it was not perfect due to many issues.

And not to discourage Zam, it will be even more difficult with a 6 cylinder engine. I suggest you get this book by Graham Bell, it's the bible for forced induction

 

[puginfo]

be even more difficult with a 6 cylinder engine. I suggest you get this book by Graham Bell, it's the bible for forced induction

good info ALbun, Corky Bell indeed wrote 2 books - maximum boost and supercharged. both are good for beginners to understand what are these all about for starters. but it will not give you a hint on the misery which you will be going thru whilst tuning the setup.

Graham Bell, (as in alexander graham bell) on the other hand, did carve out a name for himself in the telco industry. not sure of his involvement in "boost"............they maybe brothers.

 

[ALBundy]

Thanks for the correction puggy. Yup it was corky bell.

The book is good for most whether beginner or not. It will at least give everyone an idea on the proper setup and sizing of turbine, intercooler and etc. As for tuning the book does cover it. Whether it will turn into a misery remains to
be seen, but if gets a complete kit from a reputable tuner for sure it won't be an issue.

Cheers

 

[zam zainal]

It will be a challenge to fabricate the headers as yours is a right hand drive unless the turbine is mounted at the top behind the right headlight.

Yup.. in fact the space is quite tight for the turbine to fit in, i'll try to copy JUN setup for RB

 

[zam zainal]

so i guess thats why the rule no.1 stays :

"do not boost a NA engine"

..........if cost is prohibitive to do it right. lets see where Zam gets with his venture.

By the way i found out news tha HPF have succeed on bolt on turbo the E46 328/330? They claimed at an est 300hp!