E30 Stock brakes...

[Jules]

Guys,I recently posted on an overseas forum and this chap told me that his stock E30 brakes are very good, and good enough for his high speed driving thru the mountain roads.....which amazes me cos my slightly uprated brake set-up ( even with disc,pads,braided lines ) lacked the bite.By the way - my poll is for road applications & conditions. ( some high speed work )Will share with you all my latest mod.Cheers.

 

[zaskar]

Jules, theres lots more to breaking then just stompimg on the pedal and expecting dead stop. I mean alot of times its down to knowing your route and preparing for any eventualities.

That person overseas would be familiar with his mountain route before blasting through and as such he would know his entry points to curves, length of downhill sections and blind corners of which to slow down, so being able to modulate his brakes to suit each situation.

Too high a break 'bite' may not be suitable as well unless u have ABS and even with ABS absoulute breaking distance is not reduced on certains road conditions.

I just remember some points,
1) Don't Tailgate
2) Maintain lane discipline
3) Always be prepared for people with itchy backsides that like to change lanes with out signalling or come out from side roads without looking bothways.

So for normal road applications i would say my stock e30 setup (all around disks) are suitable for most road and traffic conditions. (Blasting around puchong at 180km/hr is not standard driving conditions)

 

[scin]

My car came equipped with all round discs and ABS..... so far, so good la!
Don't feel the need to upgrade yet.

If you are referring to the rear drums setup, then I would say, a change at the rear would be worth considering.

 

[moots]

My stock e30(front ventilated/rear drum) has the following issues:
1. longer pedal travel than normal(compared to my
e34,saga,satria etc)
2. slightly harder foot pressure to stop the car

other than that it's ok.can stop during emergency brakes and have enough bite.i'll probably tweak the rear brake to closer tolerance this weekend

 

[Jules]

Originally posted by zaskar@Jan 20 2006, 12:48 PM
Jules, theres lots more to breaking then just stompimg on the pedal and expecting dead stop. I mean alot of times its down to knowing your route and preparing for any eventualities.

That person overseas would be familiar with his mountain route before blasting through and as such he would know his entry points to curves, length of downhill sections and blind corners of which to slow down, so being able to modulate his brakes to suit each situation.

Too high a break 'bite' may not be suitable as well unless u have ABS and even with ABS absoulute breaking distance is not reduced on certains road conditions.

I just remember some points,
1) Don't Tailgate
2) Maintain lane discipline
3) Always be prepared for people with itchy backsides that like to change lanes with out signalling or come out from side roads without looking bothways.

So for normal road applications i would say my stock e30 setup (all around disks) are suitable for most road and traffic conditions. (Blasting around puchong at 180km/hr is not standard driving conditions)

Thanks for advise on braking - I drive veli veli slow one.....and due to my old age and slow reaction - I find my slightly upgraded brakes not effective even when I know where, how and when to brake.

I am on 4 disc brakes, vented 260mm ATE fronts.

 

[Alvin]

If you ask me, stock SUCKS! Thats the first thing that went when i did my car.
When we talking braking, it's got nothing to bout the how familiar the roads are. we are talking here how good the brakes is. So please test from 50 to 0 how many meters its needed. Also do it with the same tires.
1 point to take note is that in braking, tires plays the most vital roll.

 

[Jules]

Alvin, agree with ur tyres bit.....and if I may add...tyre pressures esp the front!

 

[Fireblade]

The E30 standard brakes (disc/drum combo) on the M40 model is just not up to my expectations. The pedal travel is long, response is a tad delayed and you need to give it a hard shove to stop briskly. Compared to my E36 it is just no where near. 'Feel' is also an important factor to me as it affects my driving style, i.e. knowing that the brakes are not that responsive then I have to give myself more distance in case of emergency and be extra alert. Therefore brakes with good feel gives me plenty confidence in driving. So, you know what my answer was for the poll.

 

[Jules]

Fireblade - yes, mine really lack the feel and needed a fair amount of effort too before you feel any retardation. Some say my ori servo leaked which is really possible but I tested it via a Haynes manual recommended tip.....there were no leaks & all was ok.

And correct - having 2 cars to drive in the family stable, u really feel how "wooden" the E30 brakes were...

Keep the comments coming.

 

[nikazwaa]

What can i say? Mine just bites.

 

[Zoggee]

hmm.... :unsure:

I guess you all better then BMW engineers.:blush: or just dun know brakes maintenance....

C1p3K x 2!!!!

I can only says that the original brake is good enuf. :nyehehe:

 

[Jules]

Zog, that's why i run a poll.....cos I m a silly paper engineer.

 

[ichiwan2]

Most significant upgrades for my ol e21 were the brake booster (using e28) and 4-pot calipers (Girling, aka Volvo 240 calipers for vented disc). If u can fit e32 brake boosters - fantastic.

Minor improvements with ss braided hose. Find the performance pads need warming up before they bite - not very useful for me.

Best bite with Jurid pads (when I was using standard e21 calipers).

Currently using textar pads - pretty good.

 

[skar19]

depends on the condition la of the stock brakes. if you make sure everything is working then there shouldnt be a problem,

 

[teejay]

my turn......
jules LISTEN THIS TIME.........!!!!!

brakes function in a system
1. servo- vaccum from engine,is your engine within the vaccum specs?
2. linkage-is the linkage within specs,i.e. position
3. master cylinder- has it been bled ? how old are they? are inner seals worn?
4. brake fluid- when was it changed?
5. calipers - when was the seales changed? was it bled recently?
6. rotors - what's its thickness? within specs? any signs of glazing?
7. pads - what type, what kind, any signs of glazing?

any fault in any components will deteriorate the brakes performance
most important technique that is not adhered to is the proper beddding in of the pads with the rotors, if done proper ,brakes will bite, if not, it will suffer for the rest of its lifetime

 

[fabianyee]

My E30 brakes ok mah. basically it's 325i front vented disc and rear disc. 318i servo+master cylinder.
Maybe u shud test drive mine to see.
Front ATE disc, Metal King brake pads. good bite but eats the rotors especially during the last track day. Maybe I held on the brakes too long during braking.

 

[koryong]

I think it's pretty subjective .... for someone who drives with a bit of spirit like Fabian (this is understating it of course .. ), the stock brakes (disc / drum) suck big time ...

And especially for those who have owned e39's or even e36's before, the e30 brakes and headlights (another big contention) just don't suffice in today's expectations.

For another who potters about happily like maybe my father .... the stock brakes are plenty .....

 

[Jules]

Originally posted by teejay@Jan 20 2006, 10:58 PM
my turn......
jules LISTEN THIS TIME.........!!!!!

brakes function in a system
1. servo- vaccum from engine,is your engine within the vaccum specs?
2. linkage-is the linkage within specs,i.e. position
3. master cylinder- has it been bled ? how old are they? are inner seals worn?
4. brake fluid- when was it changed?
5. calipers - when was the seales changed? was it bled recently?
6. rotors - what's its thickness? within specs? any signs of glazing?
7. pads - what type, what kind, any signs of glazing?

any fault in any components will deteriorate the brakes performance
most important technique that is not adhered to is the proper beddding in of the pads with the rotors, if done proper ,brakes will bite, if not, it will suffer for the rest of its lifetime

since master TJ is replyin...I better respond

1. since u know, what is the vacuum specs? in kg/m sq.
2. linkage will be standard & I am not aware you have possibilities to adjust this.
3. master cylinder are bleed, no idea abt inner seals condition.
4. fluid - of course they r changed.
5. seals are fine and bleed when item 4 done.
6. discs are NEW, 22mm Mr TJ, sir! no glazing
7. Pagid Fast Road pads NEW - I personally removed the LHS pads and they look all ok - inner and outer ones.

You reading on? good.

Actually - if you all read my ori post carefully, I solved my issues and have the solution. Thanks anyway for your suggestions and checking the above (TJ), changing the servo (ichiwan) and offer to test ur car (fab). Skar - my cousin, you know who - told me that when the e30 first came out, they had many complaints from the NEW owners. I repeat NEW owners. A upgraded vacuum kit was then available shortly.....so maybe these were for the early batch 323/320.

I have personally driven other e30s and found their brakes weak too - at least in my expectation of a good brake. ( all disc/disc setup ) Actually all except one, which is the set-up I have now.

The intention of my thread is to see if I am wrong in my expectation and so far, most of you agree with my assessment. ( weak brakes...)

I will shortly post up the pic of my set up - to SHARE with you all. Anyhow, I assume Master TJ voted ok for his monster Hartge 327 brakes and Skar too....

 

[teejay]

mr jules,

i based my judgements went i still had the E30 all disc 4 lug setup, yes i did have the weak brakes feelings etc,etc,etc

but those steps were my own personal experience and the steps i took one by one to eliminate problematic areas which even little will have a serious effect on the performance of the brakes

nope i don't have the techincal vaccum booster's measurements, but when it starts making excessive sounds, i'm pretty sure there's less kg/m sq holding the diafram.......

2 additional smaller factors that slipped my mind
1. master cylinder has a spring inside the cylinder, over time this will weaken due to corrrosive effects of the fluid, it is recommeded that the master is either changed new, or overhauled

2. vaccum servo has a filter that is accesible from the glovebox
this filter needs to be washed a few times to keep optimum vaccuum pressure, else the whole unit must be changed

.....and where is your setup.....?

 

[skar19]

hmmm...well today i got a chance to test my brakes properly (not out of choice). i was on the LDP and a car just came out of the junction into the middle lane. i was doing a 110km/h it was late night, there was a car on the left and right. i had no choice but to brake....i managed to slow down to 20km/h with a bit of trye screach. i did my best not to lock the wheels. i find that the e30 stock brakes are good even though mine is not in good condition (rear drum pumps leaking, soon to be resolved).

just out of curiousity how to get rid of the pssshh sound when you press the brake pedal, sounds like and airleak coming from the booster side?