Dear all sound system sifus,I am planning to install an amplifier to my ride, but I don't intend to change the stock speakers. Need advice on the following :1. if I were to install only one no. of amp, what kind of amp should I go for in terms of power and spec. if my budget is only RM500. 2. anyone want to let go of their amp. ?
Amplifier
- Thread starter leonard
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saat
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Dear Leonard,
1. Merely putting in an amp would not achieve anything but make the system louder.
2. The stock Nokia-made speakers are simply not up to it. I fear that the sound would come out worse.
3. One of the main problems with the stock system is the lack in bass and this can only be address with an amp/bass system and/or upgrade the speakers.
3. If you are on a tight bugdet, I suggest you power the fronts first leaving the rear fills for later. This you can achieve with a 2 channel amp that accepts a high level input and witha built-in equaliser and cross-over.
RM500 would not be much to go on but if you search, you can find a used example. Consider a new outgoing Sony model at Brothers or the like.
1. Merely putting in an amp would not achieve anything but make the system louder.
2. The stock Nokia-made speakers are simply not up to it. I fear that the sound would come out worse.
3. One of the main problems with the stock system is the lack in bass and this can only be address with an amp/bass system and/or upgrade the speakers.
3. If you are on a tight bugdet, I suggest you power the fronts first leaving the rear fills for later. This you can achieve with a 2 channel amp that accepts a high level input and witha built-in equaliser and cross-over.
RM500 would not be much to go on but if you search, you can find a used example. Consider a new outgoing Sony model at Brothers or the like.
My 2 cents,
You've already got a good HU there with all the gizmos (time alignment, basic crossover and eq). RM500 will not fully utilise the capabilities of that HU.
Totally agreed with Saat. You can also search Van thread on his explanation on cost saving set-up below RM2000 which he manage to source somewhere in this forum. It just show that it's not impossible to do.
If you still want to do it, my suggestion, with RM500:-
1. buy a used front component speaker (a good one, you can search for a used in zth, IASCA, mycarhifi etc) to replace the existing.
FOR THE TIME BEING, THAN
2. Money permit buy either an amp (4/6 channel) to drive the component (bypassing the amp front the HU). Price subjective depends on your preference and the sound you looking for)
3. Buy a sub for that dedicated and better bass (If you bought a 4 channel amp, you can use the 2 channel to drive the sub and the other 2 channel for the front comp).
Cheers
It's a website.
www.zerotohundred.com, www.iascamalaysia.com (but this website is now dead), www.mycarhifi.com. anyone else wants to add.
If shops there are a lot of installers out there, you can ask from the sifus, which one is recommended. It's been discuss in one of the thread
Just notice your details. Ur ride is an E46, I'm sure when you install the HU previously, the installer need to fabricate the slot for the new HU (am I right), you can ask the installer opinion for your intended set-up (your budget, requirement etc) assuming that the installer did a good job on the insatlation and price.
www.zerotohundred.com, www.iascamalaysia.com (but this website is now dead), www.mycarhifi.com. anyone else wants to add.
If shops there are a lot of installers out there, you can ask from the sifus, which one is recommended. It's been discuss in one of the thread
Just notice your details. Ur ride is an E46, I'm sure when you install the HU previously, the installer need to fabricate the slot for the new HU (am I right), you can ask the installer opinion for your intended set-up (your budget, requirement etc) assuming that the installer did a good job on the insatlation and price.
nikazwaa
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Vanquish
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Leonard,
Continuing from where Saat and the rest had left off .... let's look at what you have in hand.
1. HU - Alpine 9833 : one of the best mid end HU in the market. This will be a very good base to start on as it has plenty of features ( 3 sets of hi-volt pre-outs, 2 or 3-way x-overs, 6 channel T/A, sub level and phase control etc) and ready for future system expansion. BTW, the onboard 4 channel amp is sufficient to drive most speakers .. even better than some of those cap ayam amps.
2. Speakers - stock BMW speakers. Enuff said about them. Fragile and thinny sounding while lacking detail / definition. Adding an external amp may only result in a bit of improvement ... but the flaws will show in no time. And it won't help considering your HU is already delivering quality sound even without an amp. This is your weak link at the moment - use your budget to change the front speakers first. Leave the rears as it is as your next upgrade will be a small sub or a bass tube for the bass enhancement.
3. A 4 channel amp and a small sub or bass tube will complete the next stage of upgrade. Use 2 channels of the amp for the front speakers and the remaining to be bridged for the sub/tube. With proper installation and tuning ( make full use of all the functions on your HU ) and you'll have a system that is miles away from the stock system without breaking your bank.
4. Optional step .... START ALL OVER AGAIN !!!!! ** Sorry, aah ***
Cheers,
Continuing from where Saat and the rest had left off .... let's look at what you have in hand.
1. HU - Alpine 9833 : one of the best mid end HU in the market. This will be a very good base to start on as it has plenty of features ( 3 sets of hi-volt pre-outs, 2 or 3-way x-overs, 6 channel T/A, sub level and phase control etc) and ready for future system expansion. BTW, the onboard 4 channel amp is sufficient to drive most speakers .. even better than some of those cap ayam amps.
2. Speakers - stock BMW speakers. Enuff said about them. Fragile and thinny sounding while lacking detail / definition. Adding an external amp may only result in a bit of improvement ... but the flaws will show in no time. And it won't help considering your HU is already delivering quality sound even without an amp. This is your weak link at the moment - use your budget to change the front speakers first. Leave the rears as it is as your next upgrade will be a small sub or a bass tube for the bass enhancement.
3. A 4 channel amp and a small sub or bass tube will complete the next stage of upgrade. Use 2 channels of the amp for the front speakers and the remaining to be bridged for the sub/tube. With proper installation and tuning ( make full use of all the functions on your HU ) and you'll have a system that is miles away from the stock system without breaking your bank.
4. Optional step .... START ALL OVER AGAIN !!!!! ** Sorry, aah ***
Cheers,
Vanquish
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Or ....
You can sell the Alpine HU to us here, Leonard ... plenty of takers for that ol lady !!! The current CDA-9853R sucks with that Glide Touch stuff and what not. Sound quality so-so!
Saat ... just helping a fellow member la. Wait till the other Racun Kings like WJ, Schone and Affan show up. Leonard will start wishing that he did not post this topic up by then ...
Cheers,
You can sell the Alpine HU to us here, Leonard ... plenty of takers for that ol lady !!! The current CDA-9853R sucks with that Glide Touch stuff and what not. Sound quality so-so!
Saat ... just helping a fellow member la. Wait till the other Racun Kings like WJ, Schone and Affan show up. Leonard will start wishing that he did not post this topic up by then ...
Cheers,
Dont call me Master la, I live in an era where all the Jedi Master had been killed by the bugger Sith. Still a masterless padawan, that's why being tempted by the power of the dark side...Keep underestimating the power to my own folly.
Seriously, sadly its not the 9255, although someone in mycarhifi is selling for RM18++. Refer here http://www.mycarhifi.com/carhififorum/viewtopic.php?t=113
I've :angry: :cry: missed out on this. Just to pujuk diri, keep telling myself that I've got a brand new HU and a very good price..but still :aggressive: :angry:
Better check it out guys ...
Seriously, sadly its not the 9255, although someone in mycarhifi is selling for RM18++. Refer here http://www.mycarhifi.com/carhififorum/viewtopic.php?t=113
I've :angry: :cry: missed out on this. Just to pujuk diri, keep telling myself that I've got a brand new HU and a very good price..but still :aggressive: :angry:
Better check it out guys ...
Dear all sifu here,
Got a couple of questions :
1. I am just wondering, can the cross over in this CDA9833 be utilised to enhance the sound if no external amp is installed? If so, would appreciate step by step coaching from all the sifu here!
2. recommendation on lower end HU which can produce better sound with the stock speakers (without external amp) than CDA9833? The reason I ask this is becos I find the stock Iswara sound is better than my current set-up!
3. Heard from a car sound system shop that CDA9833 is primarily meant for US market. Hence, the radio reception may not be as good as the lower end HU manufactured for Malaysia market. Not sure how true is that ??? Any comment from the sifu here ?
Got a couple of questions :
1. I am just wondering, can the cross over in this CDA9833 be utilised to enhance the sound if no external amp is installed? If so, would appreciate step by step coaching from all the sifu here!
2. recommendation on lower end HU which can produce better sound with the stock speakers (without external amp) than CDA9833? The reason I ask this is becos I find the stock Iswara sound is better than my current set-up!
3. Heard from a car sound system shop that CDA9833 is primarily meant for US market. Hence, the radio reception may not be as good as the lower end HU manufactured for Malaysia market. Not sure how true is that ??? Any comment from the sifu here ?
Vanquish
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Dear Leonard,
Allow me to answer your queries to the best of my ability ...
1. Your Alpine HU's x-overs are one of the best HU controlled x-overs that I have seen / used in that price range. It's flexible, can be run either as 2 or 3 way with adjustable slope level, has a 6-Position HP/LP (24dB/Octave) design and is rather easy to use and manage. In fact, you could run an entire system on active basis WITHOUT a need for ANY external pre-amplifiers / electronic x-overs / electronics equalizers / line drivers / etc cos adding them separately wud only serve to mess up and discolor the signal from the HU, IMHO. BUT .... in order to do justice to the HU .... you WILL need quality speakers and ideally external amps. Messing with the stock speakers' x-over points from HU will not result in any sound improvement except for some bass notes or high notes ... too much of either is not good for your ears and the stock speakers will go bonkers in no time.
2. A lower end HU even from Alpine will NOT produce a better sound quality as long as you are using the stock speakers. Remember that in ICE, the GIGO rule sticks out like a sore thumb ... Garbage In Garbage Out. In your case, the stock speakers are the WEAK link as they are NOT capable of maximising the high quality sound reproduction of the HU and convey it to you, the listener. BTW, most Proton cars are using Clarion's drive units which are rather good .... even if their stock HU suck big time. I am willing to put my every dime that there is NO stock HU in the M'sian market that is capable of outdoing your Alpine unit sans the mucho expensive McIntosh system from Subaru, the Dynaudio system from Volvo or the Mark Levinson system from Lexus. Again, these are vehicle optimised systems with matching amps and speakers/subs. Let's compare an apple to an apple here.
3. The Alpine CDA 983x series are designed to work in all of Alpine's global markets - APAC / EU / US-CAN and ETC. The basic architecture of the units are the same but considerations are made in terms of voltage rating, misc. features and FM/AM switching or tuning frequencies which differ from region to region. For example, my Eclipse CD8443 is actually sourced from the US directly and as such can only receive radio station frequencies ending with ODD digits i.e - 98.7FM, 99.1FM, 90.5FM and etc. In fact, more often that not, our built in / rear windscreen printed radio antenna or internal wiring could be a more likely culprit for the poor radio reception ... not the HU itself.
Consider the HU as the heart of any decent ICE system as it not only reproduces the recordings in the most accurate manner but now have to doubled up as a signal processor, equalizer, e/x-over and etc in these modern days. As sad as it may sound, the age of anolog HU / processors are trully over as the new multi function HUs like yours will blow these old dames into the water. However, these modern day HU also needs quality partners to perform at their best .... hence the need for quality cables/interconnects > power amplifiers > speaker cables > component speakers / subs at minimum. In your case, even without an external amp in the equation, your stock speakers are slacking at their job by not accurately reproducing the signal from your HU .... and no amount of tweaking or HU swapping will change that.
The Alpine CDA-983x series are one of the most highly recommended and reviewed HU range in that price bracket. It ranks very high in my personal list as well as a lot of other casual or pro ICE freaks for its sound quality, features, user friendly menu and flexibility. In fact, nothing comes close to it except for the Eclipse CD-84xx series which are also top flight stuff but with very little publicity / marketing in this part of the world. The heart of your system is already there ... perhaps it's time you start looking at the rest of the equation.
Cheers,
VaN.
Allow me to answer your queries to the best of my ability ...
1. Your Alpine HU's x-overs are one of the best HU controlled x-overs that I have seen / used in that price range. It's flexible, can be run either as 2 or 3 way with adjustable slope level, has a 6-Position HP/LP (24dB/Octave) design and is rather easy to use and manage. In fact, you could run an entire system on active basis WITHOUT a need for ANY external pre-amplifiers / electronic x-overs / electronics equalizers / line drivers / etc cos adding them separately wud only serve to mess up and discolor the signal from the HU, IMHO. BUT .... in order to do justice to the HU .... you WILL need quality speakers and ideally external amps. Messing with the stock speakers' x-over points from HU will not result in any sound improvement except for some bass notes or high notes ... too much of either is not good for your ears and the stock speakers will go bonkers in no time.
2. A lower end HU even from Alpine will NOT produce a better sound quality as long as you are using the stock speakers. Remember that in ICE, the GIGO rule sticks out like a sore thumb ... Garbage In Garbage Out. In your case, the stock speakers are the WEAK link as they are NOT capable of maximising the high quality sound reproduction of the HU and convey it to you, the listener. BTW, most Proton cars are using Clarion's drive units which are rather good .... even if their stock HU suck big time. I am willing to put my every dime that there is NO stock HU in the M'sian market that is capable of outdoing your Alpine unit sans the mucho expensive McIntosh system from Subaru, the Dynaudio system from Volvo or the Mark Levinson system from Lexus. Again, these are vehicle optimised systems with matching amps and speakers/subs. Let's compare an apple to an apple here.
3. The Alpine CDA 983x series are designed to work in all of Alpine's global markets - APAC / EU / US-CAN and ETC. The basic architecture of the units are the same but considerations are made in terms of voltage rating, misc. features and FM/AM switching or tuning frequencies which differ from region to region. For example, my Eclipse CD8443 is actually sourced from the US directly and as such can only receive radio station frequencies ending with ODD digits i.e - 98.7FM, 99.1FM, 90.5FM and etc. In fact, more often that not, our built in / rear windscreen printed radio antenna or internal wiring could be a more likely culprit for the poor radio reception ... not the HU itself.
Consider the HU as the heart of any decent ICE system as it not only reproduces the recordings in the most accurate manner but now have to doubled up as a signal processor, equalizer, e/x-over and etc in these modern days. As sad as it may sound, the age of anolog HU / processors are trully over as the new multi function HUs like yours will blow these old dames into the water. However, these modern day HU also needs quality partners to perform at their best .... hence the need for quality cables/interconnects > power amplifiers > speaker cables > component speakers / subs at minimum. In your case, even without an external amp in the equation, your stock speakers are slacking at their job by not accurately reproducing the signal from your HU .... and no amount of tweaking or HU swapping will change that.
The Alpine CDA-983x series are one of the most highly recommended and reviewed HU range in that price bracket. It ranks very high in my personal list as well as a lot of other casual or pro ICE freaks for its sound quality, features, user friendly menu and flexibility. In fact, nothing comes close to it except for the Eclipse CD-84xx series which are also top flight stuff but with very little publicity / marketing in this part of the world. The heart of your system is already there ... perhaps it's time you start looking at the rest of the equation.
Cheers,
VaN.
Dear Vanquish,
Thanks for the professional advice! digesting it .........................
I got this peculiar phenomenon with the HU. Occasionally, the display (all the lights) on the HU is blinking when I turn the headlight on. It goes back to normal stable state when I off the headlight. Could it be something wrong with the HU or the car battery is weak ?? Appreciate advice from all sifus here !
Rgds,
Thanks for the professional advice! digesting it .........................
I got this peculiar phenomenon with the HU. Occasionally, the display (all the lights) on the HU is blinking when I turn the headlight on. It goes back to normal stable state when I off the headlight. Could it be something wrong with the HU or the car battery is weak ?? Appreciate advice from all sifus here !
Rgds,
Vanquish
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Leonard,
Glad to be of some help. As for the problem that you've described, suspect the HU's auto-dimmer wires are not fixed properly. Most HU provides a remote dimmer connection which can be wired to our headlight - the display will be auto dimmed as soon as your driving lights are switched on. Have a lookie at this ... if this is not the case, best to have the HU checked out and also the current wiring that you have there.
Cheers,
Glad to be of some help. As for the problem that you've described, suspect the HU's auto-dimmer wires are not fixed properly. Most HU provides a remote dimmer connection which can be wired to our headlight - the display will be auto dimmed as soon as your driving lights are switched on. Have a lookie at this ... if this is not the case, best to have the HU checked out and also the current wiring that you have there.
Cheers,
