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mrhartge
11-08-2005, 12:36 AM
Automotive Xenon Metal Halide HID Lamps


Introduction
The automotive HID (high intensity discharge) headlight lamps are often referred to as xenon lamps but they are more of a specialized metal halide lamp than anything else.
The main part numbers are:

D2S - plain
D2R - like D2S but with heat-resistant black paint on spots to control the light output pattern
D1S - like D2S, but with integral ignitor
D1R - like D2R but with integral ignitor

The above are 35 watt lamps. D2S and D1S types nominally produce 3200 lumens of light and the D2R and D1R types nominally produce 2800 lumens of light.


Description of the Lamp / Bulb
This sort of lamp consists of a tubular outer bulb approx. 10 mm (.4 inch) in diameter which contains the arc tube (inner bulb). The outer bulb is made of special quartz such as cerium-doped quartz which blocks most ultraviolet, especially the more dangerous short and medium wavelengths as well as much of the 365-366 nM longwave mercury line cluster.
The arc tube or inner bulb is made of plain fused quartz and has tungsten electrodes with the distance between the tips approx. 4.2, maybe 5 millimeters (approx. or slightly under .2 inch). Its construction resembles that of a miniaturized short arc lamp, but true short arc lamps have a much more concentrated arc.

The arc tube has xenon gas in it at a couple of atmospheres to maybe a few atmospheres when cold and a few to maybe several atmospheres when hot. There is also mercury in the bulb, and when it is vaporized the mercury adds at least 20 atmospheres of pressure for a total pressure of around or maybe even over 30 atmospheres.

Metal halides - salts - are also in the arc tube. The formulation in automotive HID lamps includes sodium and scandium halides (probably iodides) and maybe traces of others such as lithium and thallium halides.

More ordinary metal halide lamps do not have high pressure xenon but have low pressure argon instead. The high pressure xenon is used to obtain some usable light output during warmup before the other ingredients have vaporized.


Electrical Requirements
The electrical requirements of D2 type lamps are nasty. They require ballasts which are more difficult to homebrew than other ballasts. I strongly encourage hobbyists, do-it-yourselfers, and hackers to *NOT* try this. Try homebrewing a D2 ballast only if you have the patience of two saints, lots of electrical and electronic project skills including high voltage skills and skill in homebrewing high voltage transformers with the combined difficulties of flyback transformers and xenon trigger transformers, and a budget for replacing lots of blown parts before you get it working. You are better off buying ballasts from Osram, Bosch, or Aromat (a division of Matsushita). For one thing, these lamps require special sockets made by few manufacturers and normally sold only to ballast manufacturers.
The D2 types require a starting pulse. 7 kilovolts may on an average spark through these bulbs, but for reliability you need more, maybe 10 or possibly 12 kilovolts. Automotive use requires ability to restart a hot bulb with the mercury vapor pressure high, and this requires even more voltage - 12 to 15 kilovolts and maybe even more for good reliability. The usual ballasts supposedly produce starting pulse voltages like 18 kilovolts minimum, 20 kilovolts typical.

D1 types have an integral ignitor which the ballast has to work with.

Starting pulses must be repeated frequently until the arc is established.

The ballast must supply an open circuit output voltage - other than the starting pulses - of over 300 volts, preferably 400 or maybe preferably 450 volts - to force the arc to establish.

D1 and D2 type lamps are 35 watt lamps. Once the arc is established, the ballast must supply limited current or else the arc will draw extreme current and this will be bad for the bulb and/or other parts. The voltage across the lamp is normally around 80-90 volts when it is warmed up, but will be less during warmup. The ballast must handle a lamp voltage possibly as low as 16 volts early in warmup, although this voltage usually bottoms out higher - probably at least in the 20's of volts.

The ballast must deliver 35 watts to the lamp when the voltage across the lamp is between 70 and 110 volts. When this voltage is lower, the ballast must deliver at least .5 amp but generally no more than 2 amps and preferably as close to 35 watts as possible. Higher currents are preferred - a partially warmed up metal halide lamp sometimes has an unstable arc at lower current.

An automotive grade ballast often delivers boosted power (above 35 watts) at some times during warmup to give near-full light output. Note that a xenon arc or a mercury vapor arc does not produce visible light as efficiently as a metal halide arc does. Automotive grade ballasts with boosted power at some points of warmup have circuitry that models the thermal characteristics of the bulb. The maximum safe current for the bulb's electrodes must not be exceeded during a power boost during warmup.

A voltage across the bulb higher than 110 volts only occurs in the early stage of establishing the arc or if the bulb is failing. The ballast should deliver enough power to heat up the electrode tips enough for the arc to establish - more is better and over 35 watts is OK as long as the current is not excessive. But excessive power delivered to an aging bulb can cause the bulb to explode.

D1 and D2 lamps and most other metal halide lamps require AC. DC is tolerable briefly, and then preferably only if the bulb is cold. A DC electric field, hot quartz or hot glass, and salts or alkalis is not a good combination - electrolysis effects can occur which can create weak spots or cracks in the arc tube.

The AC delivered to a D1 or D2 type bulb usually has a frequency of a couple hundred to a few hundred Hz. Higher frequencies are probably OK with D2 types but the ignitors in D1 types may only work correctly or even be adequately conductive in a certain range of frequencies.

The AC current waveform in a D1 or D2 type lamp is traditionally a squarewave or close to a squarewave. Other waveforms have higher peak current for a given average current or RMS current, and the higher peak current is harder on the electrodes and may shorten the life or cause problems with the use of higher currents during warmup.

Metal halide lamps should not be overpowered, except where permissible for accelerated warmup and near-full light output during warmup. Overpowering one will shorten its life and increase the risk of the lamp exploding.
Underpowering a metal halide lamp is also bad. If the electrodes are not hot enough, they do not do a good job of conducting electrons into the arc and voltage drop in this process (known as the "cathode fall") is excessive. Excessive cathode fall causes positive ions in the arc to hit the electrode at excessive speed which "sputters" electrode material onto the inner surface of the arc tube. For more info on discharge lamp mechanics, look in my Discharge Lamp Mechanics File.
It is not recommended to experimentally operate metal halide lamps at reduced power. Besides the bad effects of high cathode fall on hot electrodes, an unusual temperature pattern can have the chemicals in the arc tube condense in locations that can block some of the light. And if the electrode cathode falls are excessive and unequally so, a DC electric field can result, which can cause destructive electrolysis effects on hot salts on hot quartz. This can cause the arc tube to crack.

Metal halide lamps should have power input within 10 percent of their rated wattage.


Safety and Reliability Requirements
Please note that D1 and D2 type bulbs operate at high temperature with great pressure probably near or over 30 atmospheres. The internal quartz arc tube temperature is probably typically around 800 degrees C (1400-1500 degrees F or so). The outer bulb is not this hot, but it is definitely burning hot. The arc tube always has at least some miniscule risk of exploding and should only be operated in a headlight housing or other suitable container. Improper operation increases the risk of bulb explosion.
The bulb must be clean and free of dirt, grease, organic matter, ash, salt, or alkali. Salts, ash, and alkalis have a tendency to slowly leach into red-hot and nearly red hot quartz which will result in strains, weak spots, and maybe cracks.

A metal halide lamp does not like frequent starting. D1 and D2 types can be blinked, but this should only be done for a limited amount of time. Starting causes wear on the electrodes. Excessive evaporation of electrode material will deposit it onto the inner surface of the arc tube which results in darkening and overheating of the arc tube. In D1 and D2 and some other metal halide lamps, there is a halogen cycle which cleans deposited tungsten electrode material from the inner surface of the arc tube. Prolonged continuous operation at proper internal temperatures is required for the halogen cycle to work.


Legality of Alternative Headlights
In the USA, headlights are only legal for use on public roads if they are DOT approved. (Similar laws apply in all other "developed" countries and many other countries.) This requires that samples of the headlights be sent to the proper testing laboratory and certification must be obtained that the design is approved. Approval is only with specific bulbs tested in the lab in the samples and DOT approval is invalid if a different bulb is used.
It is illegal to use on public roads homebrew headlights or headlights using a bulb other than what they were DOT-approved to use. For example, a headlight that is DOT approved and normally uses a 9005 halogen bulb is almost certainly not DOT approved for anything else - especially not a D2S for example.

Many HID conversion kits come with disclaimers to the effect of "off road use only". Such disclaimers may appear in the kit seller's ads, web site, or on the kit packaging. Less honest retrofit outfits may merely fail to let you know that such a retrofit is not road-legal. More dishonest retrofitting outfits may even falsely claim that their headlights or ones modified with their product/service are road legal.

DOT requirements have lower and/or upper limits (sometimes both) on candela ("beam candlepower") into many different directions, as in various angles above, below, and to each side of straight ahead. In the unlikely event your headlight meets all of these and other technical requirements, it is still illegal unless it is submitted for testing and certification.

As for what can happen if you use illegal headlights?

1. Often enough, nothing. This depends on location. In some USA cities, law enforcement of traffic regualtions in general is lax. Police are generally not equipped to do headlight photometry anyway.

2. Some unlawful HID retrofit headlights are obvious to a few cops. It is more obvious if you have the really bluish or aqua-ish or obviously dichroic fake HID bluish headlights that are known to some cops to be a safe bet to not meet the complex photometric and colorimetric standards.

If the cop believes you have unlawful headlights, you can be stopped and ticketed. Depending on your state, the violation may be having an invalid inspection sticker or whatever violation of headlight law. Depending on your state and the mood of the cop, you may in extreme cases be barred from driving the car at night (or at all) until it has legal headlights and it has passed inspection again with the legal headlights.

3. Excessive light in some directions can dazzle other drivers. It is possible for you to be legally liable if this causes or contributes to an accident. Modified headlights might have insufficient light in some directions, and you could be held legally liable if that causes or contributes to an accident.

4. You may have trouble with your insurance company if you have an accident while driving a car that cannot legally pass inspection or has fraudulently passed inspection, even if the inability to legally pass inspection did not contribute to the accident. You might also have trouble with your insurance company if you are cited for driving without valid current inspection stickers or are cited for having fraudulently passed inspection.

Note that at least in some states, "off road" lights must be inoperative when driving on a public road. This may mean having opaque covers on the lights and/or having wiring to the lights disconnected.



*internet source*

Vanquish
11-08-2005, 01:13 AM
Ahem .... very subtle racuning in the works here !!!! :nyehehe:

Still, a very enLIGHTENING reading material for those who wants to know more about HIDs and its characteristics. Thanks for the info, dude !!!

RedZ4
11-08-2005, 01:14 AM
Thanks for the information MrHartge.
Unlike the U.S., I don't think the laws in Malaysia prohibit any powerful beams so if we can get 10,000K or 12,000K bulbs and it would still be fine.

So why don't you show us your HIDs?

Vanquish
11-08-2005, 01:16 AM
Hartge ...

This thread/post is USELESS without PICTURES, dude !!!

MeanStreak
11-08-2005, 09:20 AM
Muahahahaha.... post ur car pics lah.... rahsia dah terbongkar... hehe :D

Redd
11-08-2005, 08:31 PM
RedZ4, the "K (Kelvin)" rating is the color temperature of the light. it doesnt denote the strength/intensity of the light. a 10000/12000K HID light would be very blue and almost useless in automotive applications.

unless, of course, ur an ahbeng, in which case it would be perfect. ;)

the recommended color temp for automotive lights is 6000K. that's why philips (leading manufacturer of HID light bulbs & ballasts) only makes it in this color range. 6000K is an almost pure white light with purple fringing. it doesnt look blue, tho.

another thing to note is that original philips bulbs (lotsa imitation out there) are made from UV-cut glass. very important if u have polycarb (plastic) headlights lenses, which most modern bimmers do. u run the risk of clouding ur headlights if u use non UV-cut bulbs.

good luck!

redd

Happy Boy
11-08-2005, 11:33 PM
IS THIS CALL HID'S AR ? :unsure:

mrhartge
13-08-2005, 02:40 PM
Happy Boy, do u have a ballast installed? If u dont, i think its just a high output halogen bulb ( 3000k - 5000k)


6000k
http://img51.exs.cx/img51/9125/d2s6000k25fu.jpg

8000k
http://img51.exs.cx/img51/860/d2s8000k7kz.jpg

1000k
http://photos.e46fanatics.com/data/500/23789Resize_of_DSCN0105.JPG



8000k VS 10000k
http://photos.e46fanatics.com/data/500/74628kand10k.JPG

chubby
31-05-2006, 01:13 AM
Cool explanation on HIDs! :D

vinson
31-05-2006, 02:22 AM
Wow! Nice HIDs...I like. :yahoo:

gwumpkus
31-05-2006, 05:48 PM
what brands makes hi output halogens pls? i'm looking for something in the 4000k region... to match ccfl angel eyes..

phillips DV's dun seem to cut it though..:)

any advice pls?

thanx chaps..

popeadrian
14-06-2006, 12:33 AM
Thing is, the aftermarket ones have a light dispersion which is likely to be less effective as the "normal" lights. This could be the reason HID's/Xenons work most effectively on projector lights. The beam is focused and so the "usefulness" of the HID/Xenon's is actually utilised.

Just my view having seen the mods on some cars where the entire road is light up in front of the car but in the rain, the lights aren't entirely effective.

chubby
14-06-2006, 01:40 AM
gwumpkus,

try PIAA bulbs...loads of them around...can try ENEOS centre in One Utama Old wing...hope it helps :D

Burger time!

:yahoo:

popeadrian
14-06-2006, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by gwumpkus@May 31 2006, 05:48 PM
what brands makes hi output halogens pls? i'm looking for something in the 4000k region... to match ccfl angel eyes..

phillips DV's dun seem to cut it though..:)

any advice pls?

thanx chaps..


Bosch has.... try Stuttgart or eurocarmotorsport.com

bibendum
14-06-2006, 07:46 AM
I had problems with JPJ a few months back with my 8000K, during one of their routine operasi... I just told them that it came standard with the car. They ask me to go back to my car dealer to change back to normal bulbs.... :angry:

chubby
14-06-2006, 11:13 AM
bibendum,

those guys are dumb la...dont bother...from their ketua pengarah all the way down are dumb...why..?..cant even use common sense and their brains...take this example ok...all new mercedes,bmw's,volvo's,honda's,etc comes stock with HID xenons...why i say they're dumb is becoz they say to change back to normal halogen bulbs...dont they even know that HID's is a Lighting System that requires ballast,HID bulbs which costs a lot...they think HID's is just changing the bulb...
So if that is the case...ALL BMW,Mercedes,etc...the new 5 series,the new 3 series,the new 7 series,the x5,the m3 n m5,mercs s class,e class,cls,sl all of which comes with HID must now go back to dealer and change back to halogen?...

We are suppose to progress in all matters of development....everyone using hid's and these idiots wants us to go back to the dark ages and still use halogen...im not saying halogen is bad or not good...dont get me wrong...im talking on behalf of thousands of cars which comes with HID as stock...but it pisses me off that these idiots make their own rules whenever they feel like it...

they should read,do research then make a public statement NOT ban something which they have no knowledge about n when they realise they've made a mistake..they keep quiet...go fly kite!

thats my 2000 cents on this matter :D

sorry ah i emo a bit on this issue :D


Burger time!

:yahoo:

bibendum
14-06-2006, 01:28 PM
Chubby..

U r damn right... That is why.. if I ever meet JPJ guys again, will be using the same excuse... :D

leakwoon
14-06-2006, 03:16 PM
:(

my old headlamp cant fit HID

:(


no $$ for projection headlamp

ZeNeGeR
14-06-2006, 03:28 PM
if i m not mistaken all original car come with HID is all 4320k which is yellow

chubby
14-06-2006, 05:31 PM
bibendum,

yea tell them go fly kite...where does it state on paper with regards to HID's ....they dont bloody have one!!!!...dont even know what HID's are then want to talk about it!...dumbs!

:D

zeneger,yea i think ur rite...4300k is about right...but some grey imports might be a bit higher :D


Burger time!

:yahoo:

Daniel
14-06-2006, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by leakwoon@Jun 14 2006, 03:16 PM
:(

my old headlamp cant fit HID

:(


no $$ for projection headlamp
why you say you cannot install HID?

Boleh install even without projector lens.

the ballast fits somewhere behind your bumper (make sure for air flow) and the HID bulb replaces your OEM H7 bulb.

Easy Peasy!

chubby
15-06-2006, 11:55 PM
Daniel,

Ur right bro..:D can install oneee la guyss

BT!

:yahoo:

Hell Boyz
21-10-2006, 01:00 AM
But guys, i guess now since all the festive season, they will kacau u if u put on 8K but still 6K is cool, lolz....

535i
21-10-2006, 02:34 AM
I m running on 8K .. so long that ur dim setting is not high - shud be alrite.
BMW uses projector lens - kewl - u can see the stream of lites ..

sub8sec
22-10-2006, 12:42 PM
i would like to change my stock halogen bulbs to HID ones(maybe 6K),
any brother out there have previous experience with this?

1. how much does it cost in total - including labour?
2. recommended workshops?
2. is the life span of HID bulbs longer / shorter than normal bulbs?

Rainracer
01-11-2006, 02:54 PM
Dear Sifus,
I'm interested in changing to HID soon. However, I'm having difficulty deciding the color temp for the bulb. I need something that I can absolutely see much better in the rain or fog. Have been asking around and friends and associates and getting mixed feedback. Some say 6K will be ok in rain and fog. Others say they 6K sucks in the rain. Should I go for 5K or 4200K instead than? Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks.

triax
11-12-2006, 03:23 PM
hi...i am new member...
i need to buy HID for my car,,,so any suggestion.....
such as brand,and how much?

dwj
18-07-2007, 12:35 AM
all the sifu's..can i know whats the size of HID for E36??wana get a set...

acidburn
26-09-2007, 04:26 PM
From my survey and observation, the HID price as below :

China made : RM 450
Taiwan made : RM 750
Japan made : RM 1,000 and above

Prx might be vary from 6K to 12K brightness

astroboy
08-11-2007, 06:47 PM
Saw one E46 (in my shopping trip.. :D) using HID and I see a yellow spot on the polycarbonate headlight cover right in from of the bulb, possibly due to the heat generated from the HID bulb. I thought HID is using on 35W as oppose to the 55W/60W halogen, will the HID bulb generate more heat than the halogen? If yes, then very likely, it will damage no only the polycarbonate headlight cover, but the reflective parabolic bowl at the back too.. :worry:

ShiangHorng
14-01-2008, 06:25 PM
What's the permitted intensity by JPJ? Below 6K?

astroboy
14-01-2008, 07:25 PM
HID is never permitted by JPJ unless its OEM.. correct me if I'm wrong..

dwj
17-01-2008, 01:06 PM
i think jpj allow 4300k.coz now a days a lot of manufacture car was fix with 4300k HID.

Anette
05-01-2009, 02:16 AM
RedZ4,

1) the "K (Kelvin)" rating is the color temperature of the light. it doesnt denote the strength/intensity of the light. a 10000/12000K HID light would be very blue and almost useless in automotive applications.

unless, of course, ur an ahbeng, in which case it would be perfect. ;)

2) the recommended color temp for automotive lights is 6000K. that's why philips (leading manufacturer of HID light bulbs & ballasts) only makes it in this color range. 6000K is an almost pure white light with purple fringing. it doesnt look blue, tho.
redd


1) 6000k white , 8000k is blue, 10000k are crystal blue, 12000k and more are violet ;)

http://www.gshid.com/?page=faq#Kelvins

of course the visibility will not be so good with 10000k and more, but even if you choose 12000k, it will be two times better than visibility with hallogen bulb :stupid:


2) 6000k is white little bit to blue 8000k blue, after 10000k are coming purple ;)

Anette
05-01-2009, 02:23 AM
if i m not mistaken all original car come with HID is all 4320k which is yellow

all cars with original HIDs are comming 4300k

Anette
05-01-2009, 02:49 AM
What's the permitted intensity by JPJ? Below 6K?

IF its OEM then 4300k , 6000k, more i wouldnt recommend to try


If it is aftermarket then you need to have , at least here in Latvia it is so,automatic highness regulator to prevent a dazzle of other drivers and light flashning :rolleyes: But im sure you have law , which you can find in net :top:

crug75hid
16-09-2009, 12:04 AM
Though every one know about HID, I would like to express my experience with it. HID stands for High Intensity Discharge. It refers to lighting technology that relies on an electrical charge to ignite xenon gas contained in a sealed bulb. I found this Xenon’s bright white light is more nearer to natural daylight and helps reduce the eye fatigue normally experienced when driving long distances at night.* I feel this is a revolutionary concept in automotive light that provides 3 times more light on the road and improve your view of road signs, other vehicles, intersections, and objects on the road compared to traditional halogen headlights. I have the 8000K HID kit too and love it, they are cheaper on ebay but I wanted a warranty so I got it here. Head Light HID kit * (http://www.prostreetlighting.com), or you can try one of the vendors.