Why is the 'Tech & Peformance' Section private?

[Daniel]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Strider]

thought it's only me .......

[SuperCharger]

i guess u need to be a registered club member to access those "special" sites..

[flash]

No loss to me... I get better (or should I say more relevant) advise/information from other overseas forums and I don't even have to pay a sen.

However, I do miss the TTs and outings and contemplating of joining as a registered club member once my "handcuffs" are released, hopefully next year. Now gotta take care emperor and home ministry.:D :D

[XXX]

Dear All

Yes we are closing the site in stages and only certain sites will be available to the public...soon only paid up members of this club will get to have all access to this website.

Access to the website will be one of the many benefits of being an Official Member of the ONLY Official BMW Club in Malaysia. ...so what are you waiting for?

[Daniel]

as flash mentioned.

If we have to pay to access that section, then forget it. There are other forum with more info than this one. The only benefit of this forum is that it's local.

Considering the content and postings that run thru the Tech & Performance section, i think certain members should actually get paid for their participation (since members need to pay to access it).

Money making scheme? But considereing the number of people that's going to pay-up? Sheeeesh.

[flash]

...so what are you waiting for?

Waiting to get my hands "unshackled" from the confines of looking after my emperor (a full time job nowadays considering his condition, damn). Hoping his condition will continue to improve. Now you know why you do not see me at the TTs and gatherings. Miss those and the Beemer Nuts....:D :D No point paying if I am not able to participate....:( Maybe next year when I expect to be "free".:cool:

[thsaw99]

pay if you're happy to...don't pay if you're not...its still a free world...

[ersalle]

Ahaks, now it becomes like GEN.2 forum already.......bayar baru leh access certain areas hihihihihi

[Daniel]

pay if you're happy to...don't pay if you're not...its still a free world...

you justify this membership fee?

[thsaw99]

you justify this membership fee?

150 one time fee...or till u die...150 for 12 months, means 12.50 a month, average 42 sen a day, so yeah i think its fine...for me..

[Daniel]

150 one time fee...or till u die...150 for 12 months, means 12.50 a month, average 42 sen a day, so yeah i think its fine...for me..

Ah, good good.

Justified. ;)

[XXX]

No loss to me... I get better (or should I say more relevant) advise/information from other overseas forums and I don't even have to pay a sen.

However, I do miss the TTs and outings and contemplating of joining as a registered club member once my "handcuffs" are released, hopefully next year. Now gotta take care emperor and home ministry.:D :D


Flash

we are no more just abt this site, this site is now just one of the extras you get as a member... we are going to the real world now, where the club is formed on earth and no more in cyberspace. Yes with the internet, information is everywhere but is there a BMW CLUB Malaysia everywhere?:)

[geoffreylee]

I am still considering as many other forum offer good infor for our UDM too.

BMWCM have the most members and it's forum is very active. Good response are assured, some time have to becareful too of what we post la. Hahaha.

Registered member goodies are good!!

But I am worried as I notice the forum seem to be less active after part of the site are limited. Worried BMWCM will have less newbies..

Newbies join the forum for
1. More knowledge for BMW
2. To know how to mod, maintain, upgrade
3. buy and sell (BMW related)
4. TT (Teh Tarik) or BT (Burger Time)

Here are some of my views.. Sorry if I offend anyone here..

1. Some international forum are more friendly and understanding yet informative.

2. Many other TT sessions of outside forum are more interesting and filled with fun.

3. Free..

[David Yong]

I am still considering as many other forum offer good infor for our UDM too.

BMWCM have the most members and it's forum is very active. Good response is assured some time have to becareful too of what we post la. Hahaha.

Registered member goodies are good!!

But I am worried as I notice the forum is less active after part of the site are limited. Worried BMWCM will have less newbies..

Here are some of my views.. Sorry if I offend anyone here..

1. Some international forum are more friendly and understanding yet informative.

2. Many other TT sessions of outside forum are more interesting and filled with fun.

3. Free..

+1 and 100% agreeable....

[tchdaniel]

Yeah,I agree too,i have many friends driving BMW,they join all the foreign BMWClubs but no bmwcm,i dont know why?.....Anyway there are alot of DIY or tech advise on the internet.

[thsaw99]

yeah i also joined e60 forum and what not...but i suppose i can't join them for events in the real world..unless i fly over to usa...

[geoffreylee]

yeah i also joined e60 forum and what not...but i suppose i can't join them for events in the real world..unless i fly over to usa...

Do check out other BMW (In Malaysia) KL forum... I must say.. their TT Rocks!!! Free too.

[rifhamdi]

Do check out other BMW (In Malaysia) KL forum... I must say.. their TT Rocks!!! Free too.

thanks geoffrey...... will do just that....

as they say... its a free world!... if i may add with many choices!

[geoffreylee]

thanks geoffrey...... will do just that....

as they say... its a free world!... if i may add with many choices!

Dont get me wrong ya..

I must say www.bmwclubmalaysia.com still have the most (online) unregistered members!! Or what we call 'forumers'.

Love it every minutes!!

Sad the BMWCM TT (Teh Tarik) are not done as well as other clubs.. Newbies are more warmly welcomed by other clubs during TT or prior to TT.

BMWCM.. Hope you all do better ya... other clubs are supporting BMWCM 'official' TT. I notice the last TT was supported by UDMOwners and Bimmersclub

Cheers

[geoffreylee]

Heng,

Welcome.

Congrats on your choice. Take your time and you'll find a good specimen.

Do post if you have any specific questions. If you search, you'll find many discussions on e36 here, what to look out for etc...

Enjoy your stay.

Hi Lee36328,

Sad... as many important thread in BMWCM are off limit for newbies(non registered members)

Information of Engine Tech and etcs are off limit..

I wonder how newbies will feel about it..

[geoffreylee]

If I may add...

May I suggest that BMWCM Forum open all thread to newbies for 1 week.

As many newbies are here to search for solution to their problems with their UDM or to search for secondhand UDM to achieve their dream of driving one.

If they find it hard to learn more about their car here then they might source it else where.

I google.. and I found BMWCM and this forum helped me for my search for my UDM... So if many of the important threads are closed..... susah la.

[XXX]

Dear Geoffrey

Yes it is a free world and everybody has a the right to do what they one.

Pls let us explain this again, BMW Club Malaysia has moved on from the cyberspace domain and is now in the process of setting up a club on earth.
What BMW Club hopes to be is to be as great as this site. So basically now the site is one of the many priveleges you get for being a member of BMW Club Malaysia and not the other way around.

Like we said earlier in another posting , information you can get everywhere but can u get BMW Club Malaysia everywhere? We are trying to build this club as of now with the hope of it being one of the best automotive clubs in the country with a vision of a club house and so on but as in any club it needs members and funding from the members in the way of subscription fees to make all this vision a reality.
So its not a matter of what you get or what you can get but what you can do to bring this club to another level by supporting it to the best of ones ability so that you can proudly say Im a member of BMW Club Malaysia with pride.

We dont want to go into details abt the other sites/group but do you know the history of how they came abt?...through BMW Club Malaysia. They came they looted and they left. So thats why we are what we are now but we are glad that this groups still acknowledges BMW Club Malaysia as the reason they found each other and still supports BMW Club Malaysia Official TT....

Why does one join Lake Club, Tropicana Club and so on which cost much much more...it is for a sense of belonging... to say Im a member of this club and that club and the more prestigous and expensive the club is the more you would want to tell the whole world.You can do that too now at a much much lower cost and say with pride that u are a member of BMW Club Malaysia. Seriously, if you go and tell somebody in the street "Im a member of bXXXXXsclub" he or she would probably be scratching his or her head and wonder what is that...but if you say Im a member of BMW Club Malaysia...now that is a different story with a different perceptive value just like when you say you are a member of Lake Club to Im a member of Pond Club.

We are not saying BMWCM is the best but one thing for sure though, with all the support from you all out there it is not impossible to be . So to you guys out there who still cant see the concept of what is happening here...its no more abt the forum/site its about you and me making BMW CLUB Malaysia a reality, to build a place where we can call HOME.

ROME WAS NOT BUILT IN ONE DAY BUT IT WAS BUILT AND EVENTUALLY BECAME AN EMPIRE.

[XXX]

If I may add...

May I suggest that BMWCM Forum open all thread to newbies for 1 week.

.

Thank You for your suggestion. Your suggestion will be taken into consideration.

[thsaw99]

geoffreylee i seconded yr great idea...perhaps even open for 2 weeks cos when bz 1 week can be a bit short..

[INNOVATOR]

To all, I think paying joining and subscription fees to be a member is just fine. But there are definitely several factors to consider:

1. The club committee is responsible and accountable for all monies collected.

2. They have to continuously regulate the rules & membership of the club.

3. They have to constantly make the club eventful & purposeful.

All the three above requires a great deal of sacrifice and time on the part of the committee - much of it is usually thankless. So, I take the opportunity to thank the commitee for their dedication to this club - it is tough work!

I am a member on many forums locally and internationally, on the subject of cars and others. I do not pay anything to be a member. These forums have brick & mortar clubs, too. I only pay subscription fees if I participate in the brick & mortar club.

BMWCM has taken the road to have members join up, even to participate in forums - entirely their call. TTs and other gatherings seem to need a sanction from BMWCM to go ahead. BMWCM keeps reminding us they are the only official club here, so far.

MY PREDICTIONS:

1. Current membership will fall to the numbers that have signed up. I think the committee knows this and have designed it this way. Well and good, because they can concentrate on actual members.

2.BMW fans who don't own or who are aspiring to one one, would drop out, too.

RESULT: These people who drop out will then start another club, maybe calling it the BMW FAN CLUB. It would be open to all who want to "forumize" and who hope to own a BMW and for those who just like BMWs. They, will then build up on their membership, go to BMW International and say, "Look, we have this large number of members and want to be recognised as an official BMW Club". They will also do the same for BMW Malaysia. They will get this recognition they ask for because in the future, there will be someone or a few people or many people; who have appreciated this fan club, have come up in life, economically wise and have the money to buy a BMW or several BMWs. And because each person knows at least 200 people.

I personally became a BMW fan because my ex-boss loves BMWs and would usually buy many BMWs each year. Plus at the same time, looking was not enough. A friend let me test drive his brother's brand new E28 520i at that time. I was sold. I didn't have the money and could not afford a car at that time. I told myself, "When I buy BMW, it must be new". Now, I am on my third BMW in 7 years.

[geoffreylee]

To all, I think paying joining and subscription fees to be a member is just fine. But there are definitely several factors to consider:

1. The club committee is responsible and accountable for all monies collected.

2. They have to continuously regulate the rules & membership of the club.

3. They have to constantly make the club eventful & purposeful.

All the three above requires a great deal of sacrifice and time on the part of the committee - much of it is usually thankless. So, I take the opportunity to thank the commitee for their dedication to this club - it is tough work!

I am a member on many forums locally and internationally, on the subject of cars and others. I do not pay anything to be a member. These forums have brick & mortar clubs, too. I only pay subscription fees if I participate in the brick & mortar club.

BMWCM has taken the road to have members join up, even to participate in forums - entirely their call. TTs and other gatherings seem to need a sanction from BMWCM to go ahead. BMWCM keeps reminding us they are the only official club here, so far.

MY PREDICTIONS:

1. Current membership will fall to the numbers that have signed up. I think the committee knows this and have designed it this way. Well and good, because they can concentrate on actual members.

2.BMW fans who don't own or who are aspiring to one one, would drop out, too.

RESULT: These people who drop out will then start another club, maybe calling it the BMW FAN CLUB. It would be open to all who want to "forumize" and who hope to own a BMW and for those who just like BMWs. They, will then build up on their membership, go to BMW International and say, "Look, we have this large number of members and want to be recognised as an official BMW Club". They will also do the same for BMW Malaysia. They will get this recognition they ask for because in the future, there will be someone or a few people or many people; who have appreciated this fan club, have come up in life, economically wise and have the money to buy a BMW or several BMWs. And because each person knows at least 200 people.

I personally became a BMW fan because my ex-boss loves BMWs and would usually buy many BMWs each year. Plus at the same time, looking was not enough. A friend let me test drive his brother's brand new E28 520i at that time. I was sold. I didn't have the money and could not afford a car at that time. I told myself, "When I buy BMW, it must be new". Now, I am on my third BMW in 7 years.


I agree with you...

It is a lot of hardwork for BMWCB on this.. Will help promote BMWCM always..

Guess difference people have difference expectation from "Club".

As for me.. it is my 'ride' that I appreciate most and I would like to meet other who adore and love their BMW. Many forumers here who dream of owning a BMW since they r very young and it is always their dream car even they already own one or two.

I am not so much into status or who I with but of how I can love "BMW" more. I must say, I agree with

" I didn't have the money and could not afford a car at that time. I told myself, "When I buy BMW, it must be new".

Good to have the money to buy a new BMW as the ride and drive experience is not the same as a 10 years old BMW. Anyway, this keep me love for BMW always so there one I can always admire.


The Perdana Vsixer is one of the example where we can learn. Very active members and lots of sponsors. We may learn to request registered member to summit their car registration details.

BMWCM started so well.. you have the most active BMW member (unofficial) or fan club... Keep it going please.

Do continue to seek new stategies ... not everyone are proud to be member of highend clubs. Many who can own a NEW BMW are already famous and rich and at that status, they are here more on fun, excitement, lifestyle and networking.

Sorry if I have said too much here.. or offended anyone.. Sharing all this as for the love of BMW.

[Lee36328]

To all, I think paying joining and subscription fees to be a member is just fine. But there are definitely several factors to consider:

1. The club committee is responsible and accountable for all monies collected.

2. They have to continuously regulate the rules & membership of the club.

3. They have to constantly make the club eventful & purposeful.

All the three above requires a great deal of sacrifice and time on the part of the committee - much of it is usually thankless. So, I take the opportunity to thank the commitee for their dedication to this club - it is tough work!



INNOVATOR,

Thank you sincerely for the excellent points. I like point 3 especially.

Do you have any suggestions/ideas for events for the club? Lets talk.

It is good to hear everyone's views in a frank, open, and constructive discussion. It is also good to see that the fee structure is taking effect, what I'd like to call the put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is effect. Suddenly, things are being taken more seriously because cold hard cash is involved.

It's easy to talk. It's more difficult to contribute. It's even harder to fork over hard-earned dollars. People who pay will care more deeply about what they are paying for because the club, in a very real sense, 'belongs' to them. The members are all, in effect, shareholders of the club.

Of course, the immediate effect is that the club will shrink in size compared to the forum before. But no matter. Even a few passionate individuals will make more difference than a few thousand indifferent masses.

For the concerned citizens who fear that the people running the club will suddenly profit from the membership drive, rest assured. The club, as an official club, is bound by the law governing societies, not to mention the official bmw club guidelines. As in point 1 above, the committee is BOUND by regulations to be held accountable for all monies involved. But good point, I will also check to see whether the regulations also require an annual audit of some form or not.

Good discussion, keep the feedback coming.

[mpower]

I think this club is going no where now ...............

There are tons of FREE info in others clubs tech sections. Why pay ??? :mad:

[dvng]

INNOVATOR,

Thank you sincerely for the excellent points. I like point 3 especially.

Do you have any suggestions/ideas for events for the club? Lets talk.

It is good to hear everyone's views in a frank, open, and constructive discussion. It is also good to see that the fee structure is taking effect, what I'd like to call the put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is effect. Suddenly, things are being taken more seriously because cold hard cash is involved.

It's easy to talk. It's more difficult to contribute. It's even harder to fork over hard-earned dollars. People who pay will care more deeply about what they are paying for because the club, in a very real sense, 'belongs' to them. The members are all, in effect, shareholders of the club.

Of course, the immediate effect is that the club will shrink in size compared to the forum before. But no matter. Even a few passionate individuals will make more difference than a few thousand indifferent masses.

For the concerned citizens who fear that the people running the club will suddenly profit from the membership drive, rest assured. The club, as an official club, is bound by the law governing societies, not to mention the official bmw club guidelines. As in point 1 above, the committee is BOUND by regulations to be held accountable for all monies involved. But good point, I will also check to see whether the regulations also require an annual audit of some form or not.

Good discussion, keep the feedback coming.

ALL society are required by the ROS law to submit audited account annually. The same goes to Minutes of meeting during the AGM. Everything has to be done tranparently. Can i suggest that the Constitution and ByLaws be posted on the forum for our perusal. If i were to joined. I would need to know how the club will be run whilst in constraints of the Constitution.

[seech]

Hi All,

Firstly, I've always thought of bmwclubmalaysia.com as THE BMW club. The forum members have always been ever ready to offer their advice for FREE. I'm not entirely certain that these latest developments are for the best of the club.

IF the forum is meant for people who love BMW's whether they own one or not, for BMW lovers to swap info and help each other out, for BMW enthusiast to just hang out online and share their views with other BMW enthusiast then I think this latest measure to 'encourage' people to join the club had failed.

From a BMW owner myself, I have gotten plenty of good advice form fellow forummers and hopefully I have also been able help out some of the other BMW forummers. It is quite dissapointing to hear about this latest measure to get people to officially join the club. Personally, it feels more like blackmail to me.

"You MUST join the club or you don't get to use the forum".

Anyway, like those that have posted comments on this issue before me, those in charge have every right to do so as it is indeed up to the individual to decide whether they want to officially join the club or not.

However, don't you think it is a bit counter productive IF the objective is to encourage more members to join the club? IF the objective is to restrict or reduce membership to an elite group of BMW owners then this method would probably achieve that objective.

IF the objective is to get more people to join the club and be seen as the definitive BMW club in Malaysia then don't you think opening the forum up to ANYONE who has registered online would be better? I'm sure not everyone on this forum is a BMW owner. I'm sure some are looking to buy a BMW sometime in the future and some are just passionate about BMW's. BUT I'm sure ALL of the forummers love BMW's or they would not be forum members. Why is bmwclubmalaysia shutting the door to all these individuals? Do you really think that those who are not BMW owners would want to officially join the club BEFORE they have bought a BMW? What would they drive to the clubs events etc.? Would they even be allowed to join in since they don't have a BMW? Imagine a BMW convoy with Proton's, Honda's, etc. mixed in with the Bimmers? Or are those who are members but don't own Bimmers supposed to follow behind so as not to disrupt the BMW owners in front?

You can argue that if they were so passionate about BMW's then they should officially join the club. Yes, that is probably true but I'm sure those who have not joined yet have their reasons. I'm certain its not about the money. Anyone who has bought or is thinking about buying a BMW can surely afford the membership fees.

So why haven't I joined? Its not about the money. Some of us just don't have the time to join all the activities or TT sessions etc. I have a 2-year old daughter and another kid on the way so even if I wanted to join in the activities and TT sessions, this is probably not the right time for me. I'm sure other have work or other reasons for not being able to join in.

So where does this leave us? I love BMW's. That's why I joined the forum. I like participating in this forum and check it daily to keep up with what's new. If the Committee wants more people to sign up as official members then they should show us fellow forummers all the benefits of signing up. Give anyone enough good reasons and most would sign up. I would like to be more active in the club and would sign up BUT as I mentioned above I don't have the time to participate. So what do I do? Sign up just to have access to this forum? What other reason would I have to sign up?

I actually feel quite dissapointed with what is happening now. Its almost like we are being forced to sign up or we will be shut out of the forum. Is this really the best way to get people to sign up? By threatening them?

Anyway, I hope that this decision to progressively close the forums to those who are not official members will be reversed. If not, then I suppose we will progressively be shut out and will have no choice but to find somewhere else to go.

I do hope that I'm wrong and all of us fellow BMW enthusiast can continue to use this forum without any discrimination between 'official' and unofficial members. bmwclubmalaysia.com should be seen as the leading BMW club in Malaysia and set an example for other clubs to follow.

[XXX]

To all, I think paying joining and subscription fees to be a member is just fine. But there are definitely several factors to consider:

1. The club committee is responsible and accountable for all monies collected. Yes as per regulations of the ROS we are bound to an annual audit

2. They have to continuously regulate the rules & membership of the club.
We try to enforce rules but we are deemed as control freaks and bcos of this the splinter groups are formed...it has happened bcos evrybody has the assumption that the internet have no boundaries so how do we educate this people. Well
you cant pls everybody but there are still a large percentage out there with the right kind of mentality so we hope this people will make BMW Clubs vision a reality.

3. They have to constantly make the club eventful & purposeful.
Yes but it has to have members and funds to organise it, so thats why we are having a membership drive now and with the support from all, this is not one of the problems I foresee at all.

All the three above requires a great deal of sacrifice and time on the part of the committee - much of it is usually thankless. So, I take the opportunity to thank the commitee for their dedication to this club - it is tough work!
Yes but somebodies got to do it, infact you all can come aboard looking at how passionate you guys are, so that this club can be what you expect it to be.
FYI anyone of you outhere can run for president of this club, if you are up to it.

BMWCM has taken the road to have members join up, even to participate in forums - entirely their call. TTs and other gatherings seem to need a sanction from BMWCM to go ahead. BMWCM keeps reminding us they are the only official club here, so far.
Why do we emphasise on the word 'OFFICIAL' bcos that is what makes us different/special, that is our selling point. We are not any tom, dick and harry so called BM lovers club but the OFFICIAL BMW CLUB of Malaysia. Would you sell someting and emphasise its weakness or its strenght.

MY PREDICTIONS:

What would be your prediction then of Lim Goh Tong when he started to build something up a hill many many years ago with maybe a start up staff of 20?


1. Current membership will fall to the numbers that have signed up. I think the committee knows this and have designed it this way. Well and good, because they can concentrate on actual members.
Yes then we can have members with the right frame of mind to bring this club to greater heights.

2.BMW fans who don't own or who are aspiring to one one, would drop out, too.
I dunno how to swim, I dunno how to play tennis, I dunno how to play golf but I joined Tropicana Club.

RESULT: These people who drop out will then start another club, maybe calling it the BMW FAN CLUB. It would be open to all who want to "forumize" and who hope to own a BMW and for those who just like BMWs. They, will then build up on their membership, go to BMW International and say, "Look, we have this large number of members and want to be recognised as an official BMW Club". They will also do the same for BMW Malaysia. They will get this recognition they ask for because in the future, there will be someone or a few people or many people; who have appreciated this fan club, have come up in life, economically wise and have the money to buy a BMW or several BMWs. And because each person knows at least 200 people.
FYI only this club with official status can use the word BMW and their logos,
not anybody else and as the Official club in Malaysia we are empowered to enforce this in Malaysia.

I personally became a BMW fan because my ex-boss loves BMWs and would usually buy many BMWs each year. Plus at the same time, looking was not enough. A friend let me test drive his brother's brand new E28 520i at that time. I was sold. I didn't have the money and could not afford a car at that time. I told myself, "When I buy BMW, it must be new". Now, I am on my third BMW in 7 years.
You see you had a vision and you made it a reality, why not try to share this vision of the club so it can be what it was meant to be.

[XXX]

Dear Seech

Do you actually know that all automotive club out there that are registered with ROS charges subscription fees. We have been funding this site personally for too long now and the reason for this club in the first place was not abt this site but this was what that was started first, the vision when this club was set up was to be an official Club that existed on planet earth and not in cyberspace.
You see we have run this site for so long now that you all have assumed that this club is about this site, yes in a way but this site was actually suppose to be a privelege to members.
Yes we used this site as a marketing tool, as a free sample to entice people to officially join the club is that wrong? We had to start somewhere...like I said many many times if its information you want the internet is the information superhighway but if you want to join a club a specific club where all have the same interest as you in particular BMW's then join BMW Club Malaysia.

[geoffreylee]

XXX

May I suggest BMWCM to organised a leisure gathering with 'regular member'? (Membership drive event) A gathering with other malaysia forums member will be great!! Agenda is to promote the club and clear the air.

Many still not very clear of the club's objectives.

Like Seech had said, many are here (forum-club) to learn about their cars.. If you said..

"like I said many many times if its information you want the internet is the information superhighway but if you want to join a club a specific club where all have the same interest as you in particular BMW's then join BMW Club Mlaysia."

Then I presume many 'regular members' will moved to other FREE forum and unofficial BMW Club. Why I say so... cos I find all I need in other unofficial club and also members are more enthusiate and passionate about the car.

BMWCM should have ride on promotion during F1 for their membership drive. Invites to Pit Lane (F1 live show) should only be for BMWCM members not all BMW Owners.. With that members will feel their exclusiveness.

There are many events that BMWCM or UDMOnxxxx... or Bimmexxxx receive official invites to special events.

[XXX]

another point to ponder, have you all not in anyway gain from this site;
new friends, new business contacts, savings on parts, gaining knowledge, having fun.
You all have gained so much and thats why you all are retaliating to the fact that this site will have limited access soon. So to say at the end if the day, that you are paying for nothing bcos you only participate in the forum I think that is not fair, but what you can do is to repay what this site has done for you is to help her achieve its vision by being a member.

[XXX]

XXX

May I suggest BMWCM to organised a leisure gathering with 'regular member'? (Membership drive event) A gathering with other malaysia forums member will be great!! Agenda is to promote the club and clear the air.
That will be done in due time but seriously do we actually need to meet face to face to get things done, everything is all here for you all to see, we have created a great site isnt that proof enough now is another phase where we are now trying to build a great Club.

Many still not very clear of the club's objectives.
I think if you have browse through this forum all the the objectives are there which is to be The Club for all BMW enthusiast and to be what a great club should be.

Like Seech had said, many are here (forum-club) to learn about their cars.. If you said..

"like I said many many times if its information you want the internet is the information superhighway but if you want to join a club a specific club where all have the same interest as you in particular BMW's then join BMW Club Mlaysia."

Then I presume many 'regular members' will moved to other FREE forum and unofficial BMW Club. Why I say so... cos I find all I need in other unofficial club and also members are more enthusiate and passionate about the car.
By all means but Geoffrey sad to say after all this you are still not getting anywhere near the point of what we are trying to explain. There are Hotels and there are Homes, we are trying to build a home.

BMWCM should have ride on promotion during F1 for their membership drive. Invites to Pit Lane (F1 live show) should only be for BMWCM members not all BMW Owners.. With that members will feel their exclusiveness.
Yes we are only starting so you cant expect much yet but if we can grow as big as this site many sponsors and infact BMW Malaysia itself will come knocking at our doors. Infact we can be united and have our voices heard by BMW Malaysia, that is how strong we can be. So when that is in place you will definetely feel exclusive and be the envy of all other members of other clubs.
FYI BMW Malaysia and BMW Club Malaysia have got nothing to do with each other we are Officially Sanctioned by the BMW Club Council in Germany that was set up by BMW International but being the Official Club in Malaysia BMW Malaysia can officially work with us if they want to.

There are many events that BMWCM or UDMOnxxxx... or Bimmexxxx receive official invites to special events.
Pls refer above

[seech]

Dear Seech

Do you actually know that all automotive club out there that are registered with ROS charges subscription fees. We have been funding this site personally for too long now and the reason for this club in the first place was not abt this site but this was what that was started first the vision when this club was set up was to be an official Club that existed on planet earth and not in cyberspace.
You see we have run this site for so long now that you all have assumed that this club is about this site, yes in a way but this site was actually suppose to be a privelege to members.
Yes we used this site as a marketing tool as a free sample to entice people to officially join the club is that wrong? We had to start somewhere...like I said many many times if its information you want the internet is the information superhighway but if you want to join a club a specific club where all have the same interest as you in particular BMW's then join BMW Club Malaysia.

xxx, I can understand the difficulty in running a club. Its a pretty thankless job. All the members whining about why like this, why like that, but thankfully we have dedicated people in the committee who care enough to want to start something up. I also agree that you should not be funding this site personally. My point is this, there are those which want to sign up to be an official member and attend all the events etc. and there are those that like this forum and cannot join in on any of the other events.

We all can find information about our Bimmers anywhere else on the 'information superhighway' so why is it we like to hang out here? Its not just about the info since everyone knows you can get info anywhere. Its about a sense of community. Let those who want to take it further officially join the club. Those who want to join will certaintly join. Those who don't can still participate in this forum and still remain part of the community. Making this forum one of the benefits doesn't make sense if all the non official members are shut out and there's no more activity within this forum.

If the idea is to keep certain sections of this forum 'exclusive' to the 'official' members then may I suggest starting up another section title 'For Official BMW Club Malaysia Members Only' and make that section only for 'official' members. Then only those 'official' members can post there and the non official members would not be able to see what they are discussing. Wouldn't that achieve the same effect? If this doesn't make sense then how would shutting out certain sections of the existing forum make any more sense?

In any case, all of us have contributed in some way to those sections that are now closed. So both 'official' and non official members were the ones that initially posted on the closed sections so why is it that those that contributed initially to make the forum what it is can no longer view what they have posted. Its almost like all the post which were posted by BOTH 'official' AND non official members are now property of only the 'official' members.

Another idea would be to block out any post from 'official' members so that only 'official' members would be able to see what other 'official' members are posting. After all, that is the idea of having a private forum for 'official' members only isn't it? So that only 'official' members can see what other 'official' members are posting. That way, any special info that 'official' members have can only be viewed by other 'official' members. I'm sure the other non official members would not have a problem with that. If they wanted to find out what the 'official' talk is then they would also 'officially' join the club.

If the question is about funding this site then can we all find out how much it actually costs to fund the site? What is the total cost of running ONLY this site? I will gladly pay to become a member of the cyberspace version of bmwclubmalaysia.com in order to keep this forum up and running. I don't want the any stickers, t-shirts, etc. etc. but am willing to support keeping this site up and running.

Can we all find out what is the cost of keeping this site running? I'm sure our fellow forummers would appreciate the transparency. Then we can figure out how many members would be willing to join the cyberspace version and hence how much each member should pay to keep this site up and running.

Anyone else willing to do the same? Lets see how many fellow forummers, who are willing to join a cyberspace version of the club just to keep the site up and running, are out there?

[geoffreylee]

Can we all find out what is the cost of keeping this site running? I'm sure our fellow forummers would appreciate the transparency. Then we can figure out how many members would be willing to join the cyberspace version and hence how much each member should pay to keep this site up and running.

Anyone else willing to do the same? Lets see how many fellow forummers, who are willing to join a cyberspace version of the club just to keep the site up and running, are out there?

Count me in!!

[INNOVATOR]

XXX, thanks for your input and reasoning, a bit on the defensive side, though. Nevertheless, points taken.

seech - agree with you, its not so much about the money. I share the same predicament as you - time. I am on several committees (heading one of them), plus my business and my family. My radio-control car hobby has taken a step back. Even my cigar party events have dwindled - all because of time. So, I prioritise.

XXX, I can safely say that all members of this forum think this is a good place to be. If we are going to pay fees just to be on the forum; because this a gathering of fellow BMW owners; the numbers will dwindle. To say that the current members of this forum, joined it ONLY BECAUSE ITS FREE, is also wrong; partially.

To say that I can't put a BMW logo on own my website because I own a BMW; is also wrong. Its my wish. I am not defaming BMW, I am just reassuring my passion for this marque. What enforcement powers does BMWCM have or would have to prevent anyone from putting the BMW logo on their website? What about the Auto Bavaria Club? FYI, they use the logo
.
As I said, the fanclub can start up, grow in large numbers. They write to BMW International, show them their official number of members and hits to their website, and say "support us, too" - we have the numbers to back us up. They will approach BMW Malaysia, too.

As I said, there is nothing wrong with the road BMWCM has taken, fully justified. Those who may want to form a website club will eventually do it, and if their numbers are large enough; will get recognised by all parties. After all, thats the name of the game.

HAVE FUN>

[geoffreylee]

Guys and Gal...

May I ask a minute of your time to share your view on this poll

http://bmwclubmalaysia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13124

Thanks

[geoffreylee]

.... guys and gal..

So before someone say .."Here we go again!"

I would like to say.. "SORRY" for cause the heat on the "official club" topic.

[XXX]

hehehehhe and I suppose thats me...but no worries this are constructive issues that we are debating here and gives us a chance to answer any of your thoughts, which is good.

[XXX]

Randy,

yes go, go and be a part of a forum there are millions out there but what we are trying to start is a CLUB, A BMW Club in Malaysia just like Rotary Club, LEO Club and so on....thats the whole concept here....its not abt whether this website is going to die and what not...

[Lee36328]

Kindly keep discussions to this topic.

Links to another website is not entirely appropriate here.

Your understanding is much appreciated.

[anxious]

I visit this website almost everyday. I 've been doing so for quite some time. It is almost instinctive when i turn on the PC.

Being in Penang and with my committmentsI dont really see myself participating in the Official club itself.

If eventually I am barred from visiting the forum bcos I'm not an officilal member , I would be very sad but that itself is not going to make me sign up as an Official Member.

I personally think that for this forum to be alive,access to the forums should remain open to all. If not the reality is that the forum itself will eventually suffer a slow and painful death.

The forum should be used as a tool to attract the public to the Official Club and once the a person is interested he can always regiter as an official member.

A lot of foreign clubs are like that. Even BMW club uk forum is free.

The whole idea of the forum should be to share the joy of owning the UDM with as many people as possible.

As for the cost of upkeep of the website I'm sure with the publicity the forum gets there will me more hits and more sponsorship.

If there still is a shortage of funds, a donation drive can be launched and I for one am willing to donate towards such a fund.

Guys the important thing is dont kill the forum. If you restrict access it is eventually going to kill the forum and this inviariably will affect the club itself.

So pls keep the forum open to all.

Thanks

[rifhamdi]

some of you may brand me 'kiam sap' or 'cheap skate' but its like this la......

you guys say its not a status thing and yet some of you have penned down opinions that contradicts the statement.... Hey! what status are we talking about here! i mean most of us here already own the brand and driving it! RM300 for a sense of belonging! My! that's a hefty price to pay!

its like this la.... you buy a RM400k car, don't let anybody even your wife to start it yet, to even drive it, but when you go to the shopping mall or restaurants.... you allow the valet to park it for you......

another example...... you buy a RM800k car..... whereby everything about the car is as smart as it gets..... smart this.... smart that.... auto this..... auto that.... even somebody with low intelligence can actually drive the thing.... and yet we employ somebody who can't even afford the tyres on the car to ferry/drive us around in the car that we bought with our hard earned money....

pls go figure.............

[XXX]

rifhamdi

I seriously do not understand what you are getting at..as such Im still figuring it out.

What does a RM400k car being parked by a valet or a RM800k car being driven around by somebody who cannot afford tyres for the car? has got anything to do with this?

I mentioned perceptive value rather than status to compare BXXXXxs Club to BMW Club Malaysia was there any mention of status? Why did you think status? bcos its for the matter of fact that when you own a RM300K car to a RM30K car, this is what people will perceive and not what you intend to be.

If RM300 is a hefty price to pay for a sense of belonging to a club then I suppose all those people who paid RMXXXK to join a club are really stupid fools.

But seriously as up to now nobody still seems to see what we are getting at.

We are tryin to start a club and this club is called BMW Club Malaysia and we are inviting everyone to join this club for a fee, and no its not to make me rich but to enrich your experience with this club. So for those who think that this is not the club for you as it is of no benefit , we are not putting a gun up your throat and asking that you must be one but we are kneeling and pleading to you to give this club a chance to become a reality.

This site will still be open to all its just that one will have limited access if he/she is not an Official Member so you see we are not so cruel after all.:D

[1+2=3]

honestly, I'm confused. On one hand, the vision is to create one of the greatest automotive clubs in malaysia. On the other hand, the club says it prefers a smaller number, but have dedicated members.

Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of an "official club"? shouldn't they embrace all and find new ways to attract more members? Also, stop me if i'm wrong, wouldn't sponsors be more enticed by a bmw club with 200 members as apposed to a club with 100 members?

I think its a mistake for the club to continue to ignore the other "clubs" out there. Its better to find a way to work together rather than alienate them.

If you talk about bricks and mortar, I think the last "official TT" at MMZ was a strong demonstration of the strength of the other clubs. If i'm not mistaken, there were more than 80 cars from bimmersclub, udmowners, malatbimmers, and a few more that showed up. That is not virtual, they might have small forums, but they have real physical presence.

Are the official club going to ignore them? I have read postings in this forum ridiculing them even.

I think the club is wrong to continue on the premise of "if you dont wanna join the club, go somewhere else". The club should be working hard to attract more people, not chase them away.

To me, the fee is not expensive, but i have been seriously turned off by what I've read in this forum over the last couple of months.

[Lee36328]

honestly, I'm confused. On one hand, the vision is to create one of the greatest automotive clubs in malaysia. On the other hand, the club says it prefers a smaller number, but have dedicated members.

Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of an "official club"? shouldn't they embrace all and find new ways to attract more members? Also, stop me if i'm wrong, wouldn't sponsors be more enticed by a bmw club with 200 members as apposed to a club with 100 members?


Yes, you are right, assuming the 200 members are as equally dedicated and contribute to the club as the 100. If otherwise, no. The 100 dedicated ones would be contributing while the rest are riding along on other people's efforts.


I think its a mistake for the club to continue to ignore the other "clubs" out there. Its better to find a way to work together rather than alienate them.


On the working together part, been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. On the alienated part, no one is excluded from joining this or any other club. Why do you say the other clubs are being alienated?


If you talk about bricks and mortar, I think the last "official TT" at MMZ was a strong demonstration of the strength of the other clubs. If i'm not mistaken, there were more than 80 cars from bimmersclub, udmowners, malatbimmers, and a few more that showed up. That is not virtual, they might have small forums, but they have real physical presence.


Wow, that is impressive. 80 cars, huh? I am sure if they join, and more importantly VOTE at the next AGM, their views will be heard and represented. Hell, they may even do a better job of running the club. Food for thought, no?


Are the official club going to ignore them? I have read postings in this forum ridiculing them even.


That is regrettable if so. Human emotions being what they are, each side sometimes say not very nice things about the other side in the heat of the moment. Have you checked the other forums and see whether this applies equally both ways? If not, please do.


I think the club is wrong to continue on the premise of "if you dont wanna join the club, go somewhere else". The club should be working hard to attract more people, not chase them away.


You have a good point there. But you know what? The club is whatever the members want it to be. It does not exist if no one joins. It exists and will do your bidding if you join and actively advocate your point of view. What will not happen is a club that caters to the gazillion opinions out there until every single last person is satisfied. It will not happen because it is impossible by definition.


To me, the fee is not expensive, but i have been seriously turned off by what I've read in this forum over the last couple of months.

What is wonderful about this is -
You Have A Choice.

Think the current committee is doing a lousy job? Here are some options.

- Join and vote other people into office.
- Join and RUN FOR A POST in the club
- Join and RUN FOR A POST in another club
- Start another club
- mope and moan

Your choice. You can make a difference. How much of a difference is up to you.

p/s - Thanks for your input; you have already made a contribution.

[sithwarrior]

honestly, I'm confused. On one hand, the vision is to create one of the greatest automotive clubs in malaysia. On the other hand, the club says it prefers a smaller number, but have dedicated members.

Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of an "official club"? shouldn't they embrace all and find new ways to attract more members? Also, stop me if i'm wrong, wouldn't sponsors be more enticed by a bmw club with 200 members as apposed to a club with 100 members?

I think its a mistake for the club to continue to ignore the other "clubs" out there. Its better to find a way to work together rather than alienate them.

If you talk about bricks and mortar, I think the last "official TT" at MMZ was a strong demonstration of the strength of the other clubs. If i'm not mistaken, there were more than 80 cars from bimmersclub, udmowners, malatbimmers, and a few more that showed up. That is not virtual, they might have small forums, but they have real physical presence.

Are the official club going to ignore them? I have read postings in this forum ridiculing them even.

I think the club is wrong to continue on the premise of "if you dont wanna join the club, go somewhere else". The club should be working hard to attract more people, not chase them away.

To me, the fee is not expensive, but i have been seriously turned off by what I've read in this forum over the last couple of months.


Dont let a little thing like this drive you or any one of your mates down. It may seem that BMWCM is trying to disolve the existence of these other factions, but in truth we are trying to create more synergy. Just a quick note as well... If I would have joined the convoy of E36's to the TT, would this mean I am from " The Other Club ? ".... At the end of the day its not about how many cars came from which club, the truth is most of the members originated from BMWCM anyways... I will stop here for now. I trust you will be matured enough to look at this laterally my good man.

My Best to you and your mates
Sith

[Lionel_Koh]

Hahahhahhahah.........

Here we start again ..........

"If u not happy with the club and committee ...just join the club and run the committee Post"

But for me ......when the 1st day u accepted the committee post ......u shld know ur resposibility and comitment since u will NOT pay for ur post .....

So i hate to hear ppl always say ..."u not happy ..come u run the post" instead of asking urself either u really committed ???

Peace.......

[sithwarrior]

Hahahhahhahah.........

Here we start again ..........

"If u not happy with the club and committee ...just join the club and run the committee Post"

But for me ......when the 1st day u accepted the committee post ......u shld know ur resposibility and comitment since u will NOT pay for ur post .....

So i hate to hear ppl always say ..."u not happy ..come u run the post" instead of asking urself either u really committed ???

Peace.......

Point taken, but I think many here are reacting... No one will stand and take pelting for the fun of it, much like you. In actual fact I know how irritating it can be to constantly listen to what you may deem as a broken record, but how else does one send the message through?

As Jubah Hitam would always say stop throwing pearls at swines.

[1+2=3]

lee, i've met you several times, and honestly, have no issues with you. and same with you sith.

I only speak from my own personal experiences, and have my own conclusions. I consider myself somewhat neutral, as I'm new to the bmw community, and do not know of past history as you(lee) have mentioned.

As lionel said, Cant the club take into consideration that NOT everyone who joins, wants to vote someone else into office cause they dont like the way its run now, or to even run for office themselves? I want to join a club, and be able to give support, and enjoy what the club can give back to me, without having to worry about other issues like politics?.

One of my issues is, I think committee members have to set a good example. having a slanging match with someone else on the forum in full view of everyone doesn't exactly make a good impression on a newbie, no matter how frustrating or difficult.. or whatever.

sith: regardless of where people originated from, i think thats not the point. but if you have people who have originated from bmwcm, and now are migrating away, that should be the issue the club should be concentrating on. They should answer the questions of themselves.. why are people leaving? why are newbies complaining..

Doesnt the club want to win them back? and to win more new members.

honestly lee, it will be impossible for a club to run by just thinking it only wants committed members. There is no such club in the world in my opinion. There will always be the ones who are vocal, who lead, and the ones who sit back, and just want to enjoy the benefits.

[INNOVATOR]

I think maybe, there is quite a lot of repitition on this thread - those who seem vanguards of the club, committee and what it is doing to the forums; and those who think the forums should not be affected by non-paying members.

Someone did mention that the club should post its rules and vision. If one of these rules states that paying club members can only access these forums on BMWCM; then state if officially.

Everyone else not happy with these official rules, just hang loose, drop out, go to another club or start another website - stating that forums are free - no fees incurred.

If there is substance in this new website to be, meaning the news and postings will have attraction; then, it will succeed. By having a hit counter, you will attract advertisers who will cover the cost of running the website, and at the same time possibly make money out of it.

You can then start a brick & mortar club as an addition, or to add value to this website. BMW or any other see that there is a large following in this website; will sponsor and officiate this website as an additional website to what there is now., So, guys and girls; if you have the drive, this can happen.

Please don't get me wrong. I am not trying to pull any member away from this club, or get current paying club members worried; neither am I ridiculing those who object to the current stand taken by the committee. Both sides have valid points, both sides need to be equally heard. I am just stating the logical outcome to ending this "fued".

The current club may see its total members dwindle to 200 - 500. Nothing wrong with that. As I said before, if this club has a vision for its future; then, even with its small number of members; it will succeed and do well.

And if the new website/club starts up, again, with a vision of what the whole organisation is to be; then, it too, will succeed and do well.

HAVE FUN!

[sithwarrior]

lee, i've met you several times, and honestly, have no issues with you. and same with you sith.

I only speak from my own personal experiences, and have my own conclusions. I consider myself somewhat neutral, as I'm new to the bmw community, and do not know of past history as you(lee) have mentioned.

As lionel said, Cant the club take into consideration that NOT everyone who joins, wants to vote someone else into office cause they dont like the way its run now, or to even run for office themselves? I want to join a club, and be able to give support, and enjoy what the club can give back to me, without having to worry about other issues like politics?.

One of my issues is, I think committee members have to set a good example. having a slanging match with someone else on the forum in full view of everyone doesn't exactly make a good impression on a newbie, no matter how frustrating or difficult.. or whatever.

sith: regardless of where people originated from, i think thats not the point. but if you have people who have originated from bmwcm, and now are migrating away, that should be the issue the club should be concentrating on. They should answer the questions of themselves.. why are people leaving? why are newbies complaining..

Doesnt the club want to win them back? and to win more new members.

honestly lee, it will be impossible for a club to run by just thinking it only wants committed members. There is no such club in the world in my opinion. There will always be the ones who are vocal, who lead, and the ones who sit back, and just want to enjoy the benefits.


3,

Like wise I have no issues with you and I have always seen you as a stand up kind of guy.

Please try and understand I made that statement simply because of the statement you made about the number of cars showing up from which club… IMHO I don’t think we should be statistical here, it will only create more animosity which I honestly like to believe is the very thing that you yourself is avoiding. Yes you are right we should try and win them back and that’s exactly what we’re trying to do. Lets put everything aside lah bro, will you help us make this a better place. I am not challenging you I am inviting you to join forces to make this club pleasurable for everyone…. The balls in your court.

Peace
Sith

[1+2=3]

3,

Like wise I have no issues with you and I have always seen you as a stand up kind of guy.

Please try and understand I made that statement simply because of the statement you made about the number of cars showing up from which club… IMHO I don’t think we should be statistical here, it will only create more animosity which I honestly like to believe is the very thing that you yourself is avoiding. Yes you are right we should try and win them back and that’s exactly what we’re trying to do. Lets put everything aside lah bro, will you help us make this a better place. I am not challenging you I am inviting you to join forces to make this club pleasurable for everyone…. The balls in your court.

Peace
Sith



thanks for your reply man. greatly appreciate it. i will definitely think about what you said.

[sanjay nv]

Woow mates,

Firstly, I salute you, what a FINE BUNCH of gentlemen you all make. Now this is what democratic voice at it’s best. Very gentlemen like. All standing tall with pretty excellent views [not like the last one,ooooch sorry].- OUTSTANDING, mates.


Now my dear mates, you know what ,I’ve seen great comradeship at TT’s big or small, time and time again, regardless of whatever that has been said here – nothing has ever effected us when we are face2face with our mates, ain’t that great!. With this in mind, if I may suggest, why don’t all you great mind do a small get2gether[not in MMZ,please],I don’t know, perhaps why, you know,somewhere nice.Here all shall Wine n’ Dinner, why even smoke some cigars, laugh it all this out. And I’m freaking sure all you fine lads, will fun things up about the club.


Just a side track, remember our bachelor party[the ones who had it], close mates drank, eat,???? and FOUGHT, some cried but””, till this very day we [B]remembered and always remain united & stronger forever – GREAT MATES.

[sithwarrior]

Woow mates,

Firstly, I salute you, what a FINE BUNCH of gentlemen you all make. Now this is what democratic voice at it’s best. Very gentlemen like. All standing tall with pretty excellent views [not like the last one,ooooch sorry].- OUTSTANDING, mates.


Now my dear mates, you know what ,I’ve seen great comradeship at TT’s big or small, time and time again, regardless of whatever that has been said here – nothing has ever effected us when we are face2face with our mates, ain’t that great!. With this in mind, if I may suggest, why don’t all you great mind do a small get2gether[not in MMZ,please],I don’t know, perhaps why, you know,somewhere nice.Here all shall Wine n’ Dinner, why even smoke some cigars, laugh it all this out. And I’m freaking sure all you fine lads, will fun things up about the club.


Just a side track, remember our bachelor party[the ones who had it], close mates drank, eat,???? and FOUGHT, some cried but””, till this very day we [B]remembered and always remain united & stronger forever – GREAT MATES.

If there is alcohol and femme fatales, be rest assured I am there. :D

[Lee36328]

Hahahhahhahah.........

Here we start again ..........

"If u not happy with the club and committee ...just join the club and run the committee Post"

But for me ......when the 1st day u accepted the committee post ......u shld know ur resposibility and comitment since u will NOT pay for ur post .....

So i hate to hear ppl always say ..."u not happy ..come u run the post" instead of asking urself either u really committed ???

Peace.......

My dear Mr Lionel Koh,

It is supremely ironic to read the above response from you when you yourself have taken the following path as an illustration of the power of choice.

1. you have started an e36 group
2. you have been elected/chosen to lead the e36 group
3. you have been actively cultivating the growth and the best interest of this group.

I am highlighting that everyone has a choice, which you have so clearly demonstrated.

"But for me ......when the 1st day u accepted the committee post ......u shld know ur resposibility and comitment since u will NOT pay for ur post ....."

Please clarify what you mean by "u will NOT pay for ur post..."

"So i hate to hear ppl always say ..."u not happy ..come u run the post" instead of asking urself either u really committed ???"

Lionel, please do us all a favour, and seriously consider this - RUN FOR PRESIDENT, or whatever post you feel you can do much better at compared to the current. OK? Then you can get rid of all those people you hate, or you deem not committed or not doing a good enough job by your standard. I am serious. You should think about it. Or, you can stay where you are and continue to pass non-constructive comments like the above. Again, your choice based on how much difference you want to make, or whether you just want to make some noise. If you just want to make noise, osso can. We still luv u. ;)

[XXX]

honestly, I'm confused. On one hand, the vision is to create one of the greatest automotive clubs in malaysia. On the other hand, the club says it prefers a smaller number, but have dedicated members.
I also confuselah last time say very expensive now say not expensive.
If all that didnt happen we would still be living happily ever after.
As for the the 'smaller number dedicated members thingy' I would say its not the clubs stand but personal views of an overly frustrated person who tried to get things accross to some very hard headed people THEN, what this person is trying to say "if youre not dedicated to this whole club thingy and still want to create a ruckus we dont need you, the less of people like you the better." but
to make it sound politically correct the person used 'the club prefers a smaller number, but have dedicated members'. I admit I was one of the culprits.


Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of an "official club"? shouldn't they embrace all and find new ways to attract more members? Also, stop me if i'm wrong, wouldn't sponsors be more enticed by a bmw club with 200 members as apposed to a club with 100 members?
Ya thats why we are working towards the motto, 'slowly but surely'..20 now 200 later.

I think its a mistake for the club to continue to ignore the other "clubs" out there. Its better to find a way to work together rather than alienate them.
I think its the other way around we did not alienate them they alienated themselves. We tried talking sense into them but they preferred to be the kings of their own realm so that nobody has to tell them to pay RM300.

If you talk about bricks and mortar, I think the last "official TT" at MMZ was a strong demonstration of the strength of the other clubs. If i'm not mistaken, there were more than 80 cars from bimmersclub, udmowners, malatbimmers, and a few more that showed up. That is not virtual, they might have small forums, but they have real physical presence.
Ah Kow was a very rich man but one day he was robbed by Ah Beng of all his riches, now Ah Beng go show off to the whole world he is very rich and he is so proud of it, while poor Ah Kow has only pennies left to show.

Are the official club going to ignore them? I have read postings in this forum ridiculing them even.
So now we are the devil while the word on the streets is we are being ridiculed by all the other clubs for goin ahead with what we plan to do.

I think the club is wrong to continue on the premise of "if you dont wanna join the club, go somewhere else". The club should be working hard to attract more people, not chase them away.
Helloo we tell them nicely then they come around posting website links to other clubs and say this is free that is free, so pls tell me what
is the politically correct way to say "if you dont wanna join the club, go somewhere else" to people of this nature. Again this is not the clubs view but the views of an overly frustrated person.

To me, the fee is not expensive, but i have been seriously turned off by what I've read in this forum over the last couple of months.
Yah, not expensive but seriously this was the major cause that started world war 3.

Anyway this are just views of an overly frustrated person so just take everything with a pinch of salt. Cheers.

[Lee36328]

lee, i've met you several times, and honestly, have no issues with you. and same with you sith.


No worries mate. Constructive debates over different opinions are not only healthy, it's how we all improve.


I only speak from my own personal experiences, and have my own conclusions. I consider myself somewhat neutral, as I'm new to the bmw community, and do not know of past history as you(lee) have mentioned.

As lionel said, Cant the club take into consideration that NOT everyone who joins, wants to vote someone else into office cause they dont like the way its run now, or to even run for office themselves? I want to join a club, and be able to give support, and enjoy what the club can give back to me, without having to worry about other issues like politics?.


Yes, you can. One of the choices I highlighted was... do nothing. Whatever path you pursue, you live with the consequences, as we all do, right?

If the club is well run, complaints wil be minimal, and you can join and support and enjoy what the club gives back. If there is a lot of complaint, then... what? How about this concept. When something is given to you FREE, you have NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN. You can choose to throw it away though. Or turn it into something you prefer.

Actually, Lionel is not a good example of complaining and doing nothing. He is a shining example of exercising the power of choice - he has started an e36 group which meets regularly for TT. And since I am driving e36, he has actually done me some good.


One of my issues is, I think committee members have to set a good example. having a slanging match with someone else on the forum in full view of everyone doesn't exactly make a good impression on a newbie, no matter how frustrating or difficult.. or whatever.


Err... My apologies, can't comment on this, not aware of the full details.


sith: regardless of where people originated from, i think thats not the point. but if you have people who have originated from bmwcm, and now are migrating away, that should be the issue the club should be concentrating on. They should answer the questions of themselves.. why are people leaving? why are newbies complaining..


Good point. Some have exercised their right to up and leave, and start another community, like our emminent bretheren, Mr Lionel Koh. More power to people like him, whose group I also join in from time to time when I can.

So please, do voice out your complaints, LOUD AND CLEAR. I assure you, it will be heard. But, don't just complain, ya? Get involved and be part of the SOLUTION.


Doesnt the club want to win them back? and to win more new members.


The club comprises paying members, who in turn shapes and decides what the club should do. So, again, it is UP TO THE PEOPLE (who join as members.)


honestly lee, it will be impossible for a club to run by just thinking it only wants committed members. There is no such club in the world in my opinion.


Err... RM300 while not a princely sum, is also not an insignificant amount of money. To me, that is a form of commitment. So, by definition, all members are committed people, at least to the tune of RM300.


There will always be the ones who are vocal, who lead, and the ones who sit back, and just want to enjoy the benefits.

Yes, that's why when I take a flight, I literally sit back as you say, and enjoy the flight. I do not come up to the captain and complain about how he is piloting the plane, why the sun is shining on my side of the seat, why the airstewardess not pretty, etc. I choose the airline I want, and my choice ends there. When I am in a club or forum however, if I do not like something I see, I voice it out. If I can do something about it, I do. Or I join/start another club. Or I do nothing and fade away, never coming back. Again, choice.

As it applies to the world at large, what we do about the club is in all our hands. And that includes doing nothing, which some of us prefer.

But for those of us who want to make a difference, your inputs are most welcomed.

[joetan]

time and time again same thing. guys for how long will this go on for? pretty sure it can be resolve, hey sorry for bugging in as a newbie but can we get the ball rolling. thanks

[ALBundy]

Hey Joe,

Welcome to this forum.

Yes, this has been going on for quite sometime. No worries, its just small matter over whether the club should charge a membership fee (or perhaps lower it).

Cheers.:)

[Lee36328]

time and time again same thing. guys for how long will this go on for? pretty sure it can be resolve, hey sorry for bugging in as a newbie but can we get the ball rolling. thanks

Joetan,

Thanks for your commitment, participation and enrollment. The ball will be rolling very soon. :cool:

We must hear from the people on how they feel things should be improved. Feedback is worth its weight in gold. :)

[joetan]

thanks for welcoming me.

definately u n the commitee are doing all u can to resolve this concern swiftly.

regarding bout the fees, stick with it. u've made your stand on it and go with it.

thanx

[XXX]

Dear Joetan

wellcome wellcome , sorry that I sometimes wash my underwear in the open
but I not shy one mah what is there to shy shy we all also where underwear also mah....kekekkekekkekeke.

On a serious note, We thank you for your support to this club by subscribing to it.

[daan]

I wounder what would happen when this become a paid site like one of those porn site. I do not know of any BMW site been paid site or any other site to be best of my limited knowledge except for the porn site.

[thsaw99]

:) anybody listened to john lennon's 'imagine' lately...? :rolleyes:

ok so we have 2 scenarios here....imagine 1...where no fees are imposed...and we get lots and lots of forummers, anybody can guarantee that we will get tons of sponsorship? can this ensures after 1 year we will have say 500 official members? :)

imagine 2...we imposed fees...maybe less forummers compared to above...but rest assured those who joined are quite serious and committed in supporting the club...
and we certainly took off...now we're above the ground...:)

i certainly don't wanna wait 1 year to test before we take this club off the ground....i say the commitee did the right thing by going ahead with the fees and i trust in due time the ball will start rolling with events etc..

[sithwarrior]

I wounder what would happen when this become a paid site like one of those porn site. I do not know of any BMW site been paid site or any other site to be best of my limited knowledge except for the porn site.


Dear daan,

The fees are not for the forum, the forum is part of the club. What you're paying for is for being a member of a club not a forum. By the way there are free porn sites you know.. or so I have heard hehehehe :D

Sith

[anxious]

I am trying very hard to stay out of this but I really dont think the issue is wheher members of the club should pay fees. That's a no brainer, if u join the club naturally u got to pay fees.

I think the more controversial issue is wheher the site evetnually should only be open to the members of the club.

That's where the crucial debate should be.

Should the premier bmwclub forum in Malaysia be private or a public forum?

I conceed that the prerogative is in the hands of those in power.

My appeal to you is, for the sake of unity, leave the forum open to everyone. This would encourage free exchange of info and ideas amongst all fans.

I really dont see why the forum should be shut down to the public. Why cut yourself out from the public?

The forum should not be used as a pawn in this "membership drive". Surely there are more effective ways of promoting the club.

I know ... u may think that I am like an old record but honestly an open forum would benefit the club more than a "dead" one.

The choice is yours.

[guru]

seech, innovator, anxious- you have very good points.10/10..
if we pay just to join the forum then no point...(xpensip)
if we pay also cannot lepak at any functions..(we all also bz or got a million other priorities)
if we pay also we are the only ones doing so, and when the forum locked, we got no reason to check it also because nobody contribute..(not nobody laa, but so few surely)..then do what? no forum go watch porn and ta fei kei aaa?

haiya very sad la.. mat salleh forum sure won't do this wan..

did the committee really sit down and think about this move? even if you keep it free now, the damage has been done..all your reputasi and reputasi of this Club and Forum damaged liao.

I like it here lah, keeps me away from porn !! :)

[XXX]

Dear Guru

IF I know I was goin to end up like this I would have bought a Toyota.
IF I was a richman I would not be here as I would be in 'The Lear Jet Community forum'.
IF I know whats goin to happen tmw then I also would probably be in 'The Lear Jet Community Forum'.


:D :D :D

[sithwarrior]

CHRIST ON A BIKE !!!!! :mad:

I really cant believe that this is all over a small fee to be part of a club. I speak to you now as an average member. Lets look at things laterally.

A club that is yours. The forum is part of the club. The funds are there to help administrate the club. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX PEOPLE.... I BEG OF YOU !!!!

Guru - with due respect, YES the committee has sat down time and time again, cracked our noggins just so we could come up with the best possible way to keep this club alive.

No Pun Intended guys, I just think we put too much effort thinkin about shite that matters the least. can we at least try and and be a little more constructive PLEASE !!!!

[Lionel_Koh]

My dear Mr Lionel Koh,

It is supremely ironic to read the above response from you when you yourself have taken the following path as an illustration of the power of choice.

1. you have started an e36 group
2. you have been elected/chosen to lead the e36 group
3. you have been actively cultivating the growth and the best interest of this group.

I am highlighting that everyone has a choice, which you have so clearly demonstrated.

"But for me ......when the 1st day u accepted the committee post ......u shld know ur resposibility and comitment since u will NOT pay for ur post ....."

Please clarify what you mean by "u will NOT pay for ur post..."

"So i hate to hear ppl always say ..."u not happy ..come u run the post" instead of asking urself either u really committed ???"

Lionel, please do us all a favour, and seriously consider this - RUN FOR PRESIDENT, or whatever post you feel you can do much better at compared to the current. OK? Then you can get rid of all those people you hate, or you deem not committed or not doing a good enough job by your standard. I am serious. You should think about it. Or, you can stay where you are and continue to pass non-constructive comments like the above. Again, your choice based on how much difference you want to make, or whether you just want to make some noise. If you just want to make noise, osso can. We still luv u. ;)

Just put my last few words here ........

FYI...i'm not the one form the E36 group...Pls check the history ........

FYI...i'm not hold any post here and not even accept to lead the group and how to say i'm elected/chosen to lead the group?I just said b4 i can assist/cordinate if anythin happend...

FYI...I join the group...enjoy myself ....happy to see the group growth and others enjoy themself....But question is why its not happend b4 i join the group? i think u r the one started the E36 group.....

wat i said here is not only in tis club...its apply to all organisation.....especially Non profit organisation cos u r not pay for ur effort as ur normal job ....but once u accept the post ....u need to commit and ur effort there .......When facing difficulty ...solve the problem and DONT always ask others ppl to hold the post and experince it....U shld show effort to overcome it .....So the point here is HAVE U REALLY COMMITTED URSELF?

I experinced 2 different committee here ...the current and prevoius.....i not qualified to give any comments but at least i can say i see most of the previous committee faces during TT and events ....introduce thenself to newbies as well and chat wit them.....Newbies feel like home at tat time ...but now???

I rest my case here.....

[Lee36328]

Just put my last few words here ........

FYI...i'm not the one form the E36 group...Pls check the history ........

FYI...i'm not hold any post here and not even accept to lead the group and how to say i'm elected/chosen to lead the group?I just said b4 i can assist/cordinate if anythin happend...

FYI...I join the group...enjoy myself ....happy to see the group growth and others enjoy themself....But question is why its not happend b4 i join the group? i think u r the one started the E36 group.....

wat i said here is not only in tis club...its apply to all organisation.....especially Non profit organisation cos u r not pay for ur effort as ur normal job ....but once u accept the post ....u need to commit and ur effort there .......When facing difficulty ...solve the problem and DONT always ask others ppl to hold the post and experince it....U shld show effort to overcome it .....So the point here is HAVE U REALLY COMMITTED URSELF?

I experinced 2 different committee here ...the current and prevoius.....i not qualified to give any comments but at least i can say i see most of the previous committee faces during TT and events ....introduce thenself to newbies as well and chat wit them.....Newbies feel like home at tat time ...but now???

I rest my case here.....

Aiyah, tai kor Lionel, dun be shy leh.

President say president la. Why you shy? No problem what.

U say people not committed, maybe you are right. So, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT? How about this. Volunteer your resource, and that of the e36 group, and join in and help out? Sounds like a plan?

Or, dun want to join, just want to play among the e36 group? Osso can, no problem.

But since you come here every now and then, to offer both your e36 parts for sale, as well as your invaluable opinion (sincerely appreciated btw), in some ways, you want things to be better here right?

So, got any constructive ideas or not? They would be most welcome.

Btw, gotta consult you one of these days abt changing to manual gearbox bro.

[Lionel_Koh]

Aiyah, tai kor Lionel, dun be shy leh.

President say president la. Why you shy? No problem what.

U say people not committed, maybe you are right. So, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT? How about this. Volunteer your resource, and that of the e36 group, and join in and help out? Sounds like a plan?
-Pls go to consult ur committee instead of me .......i'm just a normal members here ......everyone can give opinion and suggestion but will committee take it ?

Or, dun want to join, just want to play among the e36 group? Osso can, no problem.
-assume ur talking about www.bimmersclub.com (http://www.bimmersclub.com). FYI there are E30,E36,E46,E39 and even E60 there .....

But since you come here every now and then, to offer both your e36 parts for sale, as well as your invaluable opinion (sincerely appreciated btw), in some ways, you want things to be better here right?
-I'm here as normal member and doing thing as normal members will do ...i'm selling my own stuff wit reasonable price ....take it or leave it .....Sure i wish BCM getting better and better ....

So, got any constructive ideas or not? They would be most welcome.
-refer above

Btw, gotta consult you one of these days abt changing to manual gearbox bro.
-No prob......one MILO ice will do ....


Aiyoh ....talk too much liao just bcos of u ...u so bad ah ......:p

[Mont-o]

I solute Mr XXX...patient and tireless unswering to the question. I think all the question and grievance been unswered. 8 pages alraedy larrrr...and this is not one time this issue was raised up. getting boring and sick of it.:( .

[INNOVATOR]

Sithwarrior, please refrain from using "Christ" as part of your swearing campaign. I am a Christian and take great offense to your wrongful usage. Please apologise not only to me but to all Christians. Most of us in Malaysia come from various religous backgrounds and beliefs; so, please be sensitive to all concerned. Thank you.

Lee 36328 and Lionel - It is quite obvious you are both heavy sms users. Try not to use "sms english" in forums or emails. Internationally etiquette. Thanks, guys.

[XXX]

Mont-o

Thank you but its no big deal just doing what a person in the right frame of mind will do...how I wish I was paid for every word though.. :D



Lionel

yes I know youre normal member , just use the facilities but now this facility want to charge rental you all want to run away. When infact you should try to be part of the solution to help this facilty that has help you so much to be what it wants to be. The committee only help to run the club, the members tell the committee what to do, but if the law has been set to A you cannot insist the committee to change it to B, if want to change to B again the members are the one who can change it, not the committee. As you know we only now getting members, so how?

[Lionel_Koh]

Lionel

yes I know youre normal member , just use the facilities but now this facility want to charge rental you all want to run away. When infact you should try to be part of the solution to help this facilty that has help you so much to be what it wants to be.

Noted .....as long as now its free ...i still will use the facility ........

[XXX]

Lionel

thank you for your very frank answer.

[Daredevil]

Ladies & gentlemen. Brothers and sisters. Let's put this topic to rest now and move on to more constructive activities.

I believe this thread was started by Daniel and the question posed was to inquire Why is the 'Tech & Peformance' Section private?

It's simply one of the committee and advisors' trial attempt to explore different modes of encouraging and boosting official membership signup. I made an official announcement weeks earlier about this step and a deadline was given. So I believe it's only fair if we do something as indicated. It is by no means to penalise anyone of the 6k plus registered forumers here. Being a marketer myself, I believe in the 'law of heavy traffic' acting as the key magnet to attract organic growth.

If our main intention is to close down most of the threads in the forum with the objective of getting people to pay up (to enjoy special official m'ship privilege), not only the 'tech & Performance' will be closed down. The first threads we'll clamp down would be 'General Discussions' and 'Autobahn'. These 2 threads generate the highest traffic. Point to note here is how much non-BMW related issues most of us happily and automatically contribute to when this is obviously a BMW Club to serve an obvious purpose.

On behalf of my articulative committee, I would like to apologize if they came across as overly passionate or gung ho. They're just doing their job. And they've been doing a mighty fine one. Well, afterall, they're humans too and they live on food and water just like any others. The difference is, they were elected to shoulder more responsibilities. That's all.

Rules are man made and are meant to be broken, or more appropriately, altered when flaws or imperfections has been identified. Decision to permanently make certain forum threads exclusive for official members are still being weighed and considered. But I applaud those who has given their views over this matter. And I urge those who hasn't, to share their constructive views before this thread is closed by 6pm today. I guess by now, the committee has a clearer idea as to what matters most to the majority and we shall deliberate our next action plan based on this. Official membership sign-up is progressing smoothly and we're happy for now.

Let's leave the issue of splinter groups out. Lionel, when you're free, I would love to buy you a cup of tea tarik to explore opportunities together.

My fella committee, pls refrain from any further postings immediately unless it's pertaining to the question posted.

Thank you.

Regards.

[Lionel_Koh]

Let's leave the issue of splinter groups out. Lionel, when you're free, I would love to buy you a cup of tea tarik to explore opportunities together.

Regards.


Anytime .....my pleasure ......I think some of committee got my contact no .....

[sithwarrior]

Sithwarrior, please refrain from using "Christ" as part of your swearing campaign. I am a Christian and take great offense to your wrongful usage. Please apologise not only to me but to all Christians. Most of us in Malaysia come from various religous backgrounds and beliefs; so, please be sensitive to all concerned. Thank you.

Lee 36328 and Lionel - It is quite obvious you are both heavy sms users. Try not to use "sms english" in forums or emails. Internationally etiquette. Thanks, guys.

INNOVATOR, so am I, so am I.... A devout god fearing catholic that goes for mass every Sunday. You obviously have taken great offence with that phrase for some odd reason, but you're right if it's seen as a religous insult then please except my appologies.

How pleasant it is to know Mr. INNOVATOR,
Who has written such volumes of stuff.
Some think of him as ill-tempered and queer,
But a few find him pleasant enough.

A Pleasant day To You My Good Man
Sith

[sithwarrior]

Anyways guys, lets put everything behind and move forward ya.... peace to all

[INNOVATOR]

Hey, Sithwarrior, a Catholic? Me, too, bro. I go to CKK since I 'm in Subang Jaya. I may seemed to have come out strong, but I have been brought up in a manner to be mindful of everyone's religion. Anyway, when you are in SJ, give me a call. We can meet up.

Thanks.

[sithwarrior]

Hey, Sithwarrior, a Catholic? Me, too, bro. I go to CKK since I 'm in Subang Jaya. I may seemed to have come out strong, but I have been brought up in a manner to be mindful of everyone's religion. Anyway, when you are in SJ, give me a call. We can meet up.

Thanks.

I go to St Ignatius Church in Taman mayang bro... actually I am meeting up some forumers tonite in taman Tun, Join us if you will. Lets have a peace drink... Dont worry it wont be wine... I tend not to take the holy trinity too far... :D I'll PM you my number ya

[ah lian]

My fella committee, pls refrain from any further postings immediately unless it's pertaining to the question posted.

Thank you.

Regards.

its good to read. when you read, you understand. when you understand, you can follow. when you follow, you can achieve great things.... Together. :cool:

sorry if you are offended by my frankness. i just dun see where this thread seems to be going and if there are going to be benefits derived if everyone keeps trying to take it towards some other directions. seriously, my apologies.

[INNOVATOR]

Sithwarrior, sounds good. I have a meeting tonight. No idea what time it finishes. But I will sms you if I can make it, for place and directions. Thanks.

[guru]

hey fellas this thread should not be closed..we should keep it on so that we get more constructive feedback and opinions of forumers.. YOU WANT TO LISTEN, DON'T YOU?

don't be like our government, make noise abit, clamp down aledi..

democracy means letting ppl say whatever they want.. weather you buy into it or not is up to you..

to be honest I think making some forums private is a mistake..but hey we all learn right? i't not too late to change this and bring balance to the force again.

most ppl don't mind paying.. but if I (i speak for myself) had the time for a real-world auto club, I wouldn't be in cyberspace right? some more if I join, I think there will be 5 other ppl other than me contributing .. how much value is the forum to me then?

[thsaw99]

we have come full circle with this thread...i think better close it down...after all those who posted in this thread are those same few, like me, no? plus we have come to 9 pages on this topic, what should be heard is heard by now...

[guru]

closing means denying some ppl of their opinion..

maybe some ppl not yet logon for weeks dunno what's going on leh?

let ppl say what they want lah..

sometimes commercial/ salesman posting also benefit formers what..although some don't follow etiquette, but think about it.. if sales ppl want to advertise here, means good lah!..you're getting popular! and ppl take 10mins of their time to come and post here... if we welcome everybody (beggars/paupers/kings/preists) if can only grow bigger and gain popularity.

[Lee36328]

Aiyah, tai kor Lionel, dun be shy leh.

President say president la. Why you shy? No problem what.

U say people not committed, maybe you are right. So, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT? How about this. Volunteer your resource, and that of the e36 group, and join in and help out? Sounds like a plan?
-Pls go to consult ur committee instead of me .......i'm just a normal members here ......everyone can give opinion and suggestion but will committee take it ?

Or, dun want to join, just want to play among the e36 group? Osso can, no problem.
-assume ur talking about www.bimmersclub.com (http://www.bimmersclub.com). FYI there are E30,E36,E46,E39 and even E60 there .....

But since you come here every now and then, to offer both your e36 parts for sale, as well as your invaluable opinion (sincerely appreciated btw), in some ways, you want things to be better here right?
-I'm here as normal member and doing thing as normal members will do ...i'm selling my own stuff wit reasonable price ....take it or leave it .....Sure i wish BCM getting better and better ....

So, got any constructive ideas or not? They would be most welcome.
-refer above

Btw, gotta consult you one of these days abt changing to manual gearbox bro.
-No prob......one MILO ice will do ....


Aiyoh ....talk too much liao just bcos of u ...u so bad ah ......:p

I referred, and referred, and referred again, to the above, but I dun see your idea leh.... so far, what i understand from your feedback, is this.... questioning the committee's commitment and dedication.... and asking me to refer to the committee.

So, my question remains, apart from complaining, what do you suggest?

And since you ask me to refer to the committee, you agree that it is the committee's responsibilty... so, unless you have constructive ideas, let them do the job, ok?

If you have complaints, let's articulate them and discuss them constructively. Milo peng on me anytime.

But get this, nothing is FREE. Someone is paying. The bill will come eventually.

[ah lian]

dunno why.... some people want to keep repeating themselves without providing good reasons why... and then hor, when others do not agree, they say people are not listening to them lor. dis one is "spamming" i guess.

i am not a member (yet) but i can understand the objective of the action taken. anyhow, the forum is aimed at serving its members. if others were to benefit, i think that would be great too.... popularity is not one of the criterias, neither is having the greatest number of members, postings or hits the overwhelming consideration. at the end of the day, the members should have its opinion on how access should be given.

i did say "members", and i would repeat that... for i see the ones dat are crying out loud and campaigning vehemently against the restrictions are the ones that refuse to pay no matter how extensively the committee members keep explaining and justifying. aih, saliva oso dry up liao. i think hor, no niid to keep going on and on.... say your piece when you are a member. non-members have no say how the Club should run its business. neither have they rights to demand viewing of constitutions. dun like it?? simple. just join!

ah lian is oni a tea lady. for now, i dun need the technical forum unless my boss says i can upgrade my t-trolley to a roundel. its coming to 6pm liao. time to go home!!!!

[sachseelan]

I solute Mr XXX...patient and tireless unswering to the question. I think all the question and grievance been unswered. 8 pages alraedy larrrr...and this is not one time this issue was raised up. getting boring and sick of it.:( .

Bravo!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lee36328]

Lee 36328 and Lionel - It is quite obvious you are both heavy sms users. Try not to use "sms english" in forums or emails. Internationally etiquette. Thanks, guys.


My dear chap,

I do apologize for that incorrigible corruption of Her Majesty's parlance, brought about as it were by the ineludible exigency of elucidation and dissemination of the promulgation. When in Rome, as it were.

I do asseverate that such defalcation of the lingua franca shall be attenuated henceforth.

[BlackCat]

Hi all,

I have been reading much of what has been happening in this forum and also through the grape vines the past months... Much have been said... I am not a paid member yet but do intend to be one in the near future I hope, but this fact does not exclude me from making my thoughts known. My views and others like me, are just as important as everyone else's. Having said that, the following views are mine and mine alone, without prejudice, fear or favor.

it is my hope that all those concerned in bringing the club to where it is now (and that includes all those foot-soldiers too, me included) to seriously weigh their decisions as the impact of these decisions will make or break the club. And that some impact can only be seen and felt after months if not years ahead.
the club and the forum should be treated as two separate entities but acknowledging the fact that it is very closely intertwined. One effects the other. I believe that this is so true and can be felt by everyone at this point in time. There need to be a fine balance between the two, but this is easier said than done. Patience everyone, give the elected bearers a chance, they are flesh and blood too - just like me and you... and we crawl before we could walk, right...?
both the real life club and the virtual forum is where it is now by virtue of all 'members', paid, regular, the committee, advisors and what-have-yous: ALL, everyone and everybody. That is a fact that should not be denied nor argued. Do not alienate NOR feel alienated. Treat all as equal, respect views and above all, do let views be forwarded in what ever way as and when the occasion requires.
don't give up on the club, the forum nor the people who 'runs' it. if there needs a change, the change must come from within. Rome was not built in a day...Good luck and God bless to all...


BlackCat

[Daredevil]

Well said BlackCat. It seems more constructive comments and viewpoints are being shared as we go along. As such, I would like to retract my earlier decision to close this thread. Let it flow guys.

Would appreciate some feedback from our lady counterparts as well so we can cater certain styles of doing things accordingly.

When everybody provides constructive comments without hurling accusations, automatically this forum becomes a much better and peaceful place. We would like to promote a greater sense of ownership and belonging to this little community.

Cheers guys.

[sithwarrior]

Well said black cat and god bless you too.

[XXX]

Blackcat

Why didnt you post earlier you would have saved me alot of time..:D
Short , sweet and to the point, how I wish I could do that, probably not bcos Im a hainanese thats why. Really, you are God's Blessing. Thank You.

[Zoggee]

again,I wanna ask.

when do I pay?

[Zoggee]

For those who wants to join the club but thinks that the fees too expensive. Please pm me. I can offer a instalment plan for you guys. 6months,8 months??? interest is a must.no problem.:D

[XXX]

For those who wants to join the club but thinks that the fees too expensive. Please pm me. I can offer a instalment plan for you guys. 6months,8 months??? interest is a must.no problem.:D

zoggee is that really you?:D Im so touched coming from you.
Wei the faster you pay the betterlah now still June mah afterward you pay in July you complain not fair pulak...:D , seriously get in touch with Fabian and Show him the Money.

[pussy]

WOW !!:eek: Ten pages for a Section pleading to be open...

It sucks.:(

wondering why a old geezzer like me quiet.. hmmmnn... was even ask this evening why was i not a official member yet though i m long in the club since 2003...i believe everyone has a reason why he has not signed up.. I HAVE..


Why a Club ??

intro to the club:-

it exists in the cyberworld for 4 years, created by our founder Mr. Chester, passed the baton to the new elected committee to bring the club to be official as to be reconized as Malaysia as the Official Club bearing the affiliated BMW roundel even 'unauthorized' workshops can't even wear on their shirts :eek:

So what's the big hu-hah about the club charging Fee's ?:(


Pot calling Kettle Black ?

why ? BECAUSE A OLD FART LIKE ME WAS WITH THE COMMITTEE AND I KNOW WHAT THE CLUB HAS GONE THRU TO MAKE IT OFFICIAL.

cos when the time was 3 years ago, there was so much hype about the club to obtain official 'status' that the committee was faced with so much abuses and threats even subject to name callings..

obtaining these status of "Official' was a very trial waiting period even accusations from time to time was hurled to the committee..

Then comes the final Okay from ROS on 19 September 2006

'WE ARE OFFICIAL'

link to the thread is
http://www.bmwclubmalaysia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8669

BUT DOES ANYBODY READ THE HISTORY OF THE CLUB ? WHY DO WE EXIST ?



here comes my views on this 10pages..

1. all the other Non Official cyberclub congratulated the club being official, then now insigating the club with their slandering comments and procastinating here and their own clubs;

2. the forumers that posted in that thread is NOT in this thread complaining and bitching about;

3. the club has rules, so adhere to it or stick to the 'non-pay-sites'

4. so what the club obtains 100 paid members ? huh, can tell you even when comes to official tt, less than 20 members turn up, organize a convoy trip to north and south, less than 15 cars, even a charity even organized by Okaw is less than 20 forumers..
yes, comes to a free drinking and food party, more than 30 cars.:eek:

in my opinon, i rather have serious members than more that talk..
even organizing a trip with a selected committee is to handle the committee first.

in cyber space all talk, never walk the talk..


I believe the committee is doing good being a committee dedicated to the club, bringing it to new levels as it's a tough job, but democratic channels must be always accessable and deciding factors agreed on by 'official' members prior to any rules imposed.

I believe by my comments above, will upset some people (i m not runing for any post), but hey, i posting it cos for the love of the roundel,everyone is a friend to me, because i have never upset anyone yet. Those are upset, will post something based on my posts, for that i m sorry.



That's all i have to say, i have said.


PEACE



sorry, cos i always forgot to pass the form when i meet up with the committee.. dun worry, will post if i can't pass it.

Dear committee and President.. dun delete neither edit this post.sorry for my english.

[redbaron]

Guys all this because of RM300,and know reduce to RM225somemore want to make noice. As i have said before you want to play you have to pay. Come on guys we drive BMW la if you cant pay this amount than i just dont know or what to say somemore .If this amount is to much i wonder how you guys maintain your cars ?
I am not trying to dissgrace anybody but this what i feel . Cheers

[Zoggee]

Dei...Pussy.

Still remember who ask you to join the forum.? You are still driving ur stock E34 at PNDC dah.....

btw,I luve pussy.

[pussy]

Dear zog.. yes.. those was the days..

[redbaron]

You are 100% wright pussy.

[XXX]

But the days have not come to an end yet so its still not too late to relive it, you just have to make it happen.......

[tchdaniel]

Charging Membership is fine,its up to the members to decide whether they want to be a paying member or not,but the Tech n Performance Section should be open to all b'cos alot of members contributed to that section meaning to say it belongs to all.You pay membership for privileges that non paying one have no access to,like if u have a club House,u need to be a member to enter the premises,AGM meeting,annual dinner,certain BMW function etc but not the forum lah.;) PEACE

[sithwarrior]

Charging Membership is fine,its up to the members to decide whether they want to be a paying member or not,but the Tech n Performance Section should be open to all b'cos alot of members contributed to that section meaning to say it belongs to all.You pay membership for privileges that non paying one have no access to,like if u have a club House,u need to be a member to enter the premises,AGM meeting,annual dinner,certain BMW function etc but not the forum lah.;) PEACE

Whilst you may make some sense here, I must say that once again that you have to look at the bigger picture. Should we just leave the forum open when the forum is now the single most attractive thing that attracts most BMW owners here. Of course there other reasons too, but many here communicate with each other on the forum. So ok lets say now we leave the forum open, can we then question the mushrooming of all other forums ? Will they then shut down ? It isnt our aim to shut down any other forum as we have our own vision and mission and are working towards it. We cant control the way they chose to handle a tiny thing. We are in the midst of an evolving and we this. As the famous proverbs say ' Dont Change Horses in Midstream ' I leave you to make your own judgement.

[INNOVATOR]

Lets have a cut-off date for this thread - say by 30th June, 2007. Anyone and everyone wants to have their say; just say it.

I am non-paying yet, but after having a friendly meeting with some of the members and committee (3 of who I met for the first time); I see the situation better. XXX, Sithwarrior; I have the membership form filled out. Who is the gentleman I am supposed to hand this over together with payment? Could you pm his Tel # to me. Thanks.

It is very clear that to be a member, you have forum site privilidges. Besides other + points.

A suggestion:

1. Close the tech & performance section. This section can be accessed only by club paying members.

2. Leave the general section open for free.

3. For those who still want to access the tech & performance section, without being a full-fledge member(without any other club member benefits); can pay a fee of say RM3 per month (payable RM36 annually, upfront, no installment) and post a limited number (10 being the number) of posts per month. Whether the number is utilised fully or not, is immaterial. Once the 10 postings is done, the section is automatically blocked till the end of the month. Unless, you pay another RM3 for that month. Quite a bit of work for the admisnistrator initially, but once in motion, it will be automatic.

This idea is to accomodate guys like me who do not have the time to participate in the other club activities. But I have decided to pay as a full-paying member.

As for the rest, who are actual free-loaders; sorry la.

[INNOVATOR]

If my suggestion is seen as the club wanting to make money, so be it. HAVE FUN, GUYS & GALS!

[sithwarrior]

Thanks Innovator for your kind understanding. your idea is kinda intresting, I will table it at our next meeting.

[XXX]

Charging Membership is fine,its up to the members to decide whether they want to be a paying member or not,but the Tech n Performance Section should be open to all b'cos alot of members contributed to that section meaning to say it belongs to all.You pay membership for privileges that non paying one have no access to,like if u have a club House,u need to be a member to enter the premises,AGM meeting,annual dinner,certain BMW function etc but not the forum lah.;) PEACE

..but the scenario here is the Forum is the 'club house', since we just started and we do not yet have the funds to go to that direction YET, this is our 'Club House', however with everybodies support its not impossible to one day have our very own made of bricks Club House.

Anyway no problem tchdaniel, like we have said after all this we are trying to work out a win win situation for all but I think Innovator's innovation about pay per use is quite interesting, only whether it can be applied through this software that this site is being run on.

[Mont-o]

ayoooo still not finish arrr? 1st page until last page all repeating and repeating same words.
Hello!!!! fee also dont want to pay....all want free, can log in also good enuff lar. Which section they want to private up to them larrr....talk so much mouth also smelly bro.

:D

[XXX]

Relax bro Mont-o, patience is virtue...but this last few pages at least can see some difference lah...hopefully after go round the round about we can reach the highway.

[sithwarrior]

Yes bro, Mont Yo I agree with XXX.. and thanks for your support.

[BlackCat]

To:
Tom, Club Advisors, Committee Members, Moderators, Paid Members, Regular Members, fellow forumers and all others (which includes visitors),

These suggestions were made in consideration of the two distinct platforms that we are now in, one, the forum which exist in the virtual world, the other, the club which is in the real world. ‘Worlds’ apart, but yet intertwined together – with microchips and wires:flesh and blood. Fused together with what I would call ‘FEELINGS’.

With due respect to all of you, I would like to put forth my suggestions herein.

For the BMW Club Malaysia Forum (the virtual world ‘club’):

Current forum members will have the full access rights to the forum, et infinitas – i.e. for as long as they remain active in the forum and their id’s are not rendered as dormant by the forum system parameters.
Have a cut-off date, after which new forum members who register to the forum after this cut-off date would only have limited access to the forum (these would be non-paying and NOT the registered and paying BMW Club Malaysia members).
Registered and paying BMW Club Malaysia members will be given full access rights to the BMW Club Malaysia Forum.
There would be NO VOTING rights or privileges to members of the BMW Club Malaysia Forum (you must remember these are two distinct platforms – being a member or net-citizen in a virtual world, you DO NOT have rights to the REAL WORLD, unless you are Tron himself).
For the BMW Club Malaysia (the real world club):

Newly registered and paying BMW Club Malaysia members will be given full access to the BMW Club Malaysia Forum.
Those who have previously registered themselves in the forum (and their ids are not dormant) and are now registering to BMW Club Malaysia will get to continue to use their forum call-sign.
Newly registered members to the BMW Club Malaysia who are not previous members of the forum will be given a call-sign of their choice if that chosen call-sign has not been used, else they will have to choose one that is not already used in the forum.
As this is the ‘real world club’, ONLY registered members to the BMW Club Malaysia will have the privilege to enjoy all and any of the real world benefits such as the club activities i.e. Annual Dinner, Car Clinics, Track Days, Product Discounts, entry to the real brick and mortar clubhouse that I hope would one day materialize etc.
AND of course the PRIVILEGE TO VOTE and/or STAND FOR OFFICE.
There will always be some loopholes and weakness to the above suggestions, I believe, but together with all of your constructive inputs, comments and suggestions, a strong and solid conclusion to end this debacle would be in sight. Lets all work together to make this happen.

BlackCat

[anxious]

I had posted a question on my leaking rear axle in the 3 seies forum this evening. I got back from dinner and couldnt find my post. First I thought it was deleted.

Now I realised it has been towed to the General Tech Forum which guess what, is closed to non members.

This is exactly the problem I was trying to tell u guys would happen. Since I hv no access to the tech thread, u might as well delete my query. In the process why dont u just ban all non members from posting any queries on this forum. Isnt that ur final goal?

Believe me when I say that closing down the forum to the public is the begining of the end of this club as without the forum there will be no club. What use is a forum which only caters for 200 so members.

More and more members of the public will be forced to shy away from the forum if they are not able to put forth queries that they have or not be able to read answers to their queries.( unless my post has been singled out bcos of my opposition to this forum becoming closed to the public)

Personally I have no problem. I am a member of more that 10 other foreign forums and they are all free.

In Msia I hv been loyal to this forum but obviously non club members are no longer welcome here.

Anyways, to all the friends I made here and previously from Chester's club I believe, I thank you. It has been wonderful knowing you.

Its sorry that it has to end this way but unfortunately that is the direction present committee in their "wisdom" have chosen.

I hope that a new committee will be elected soon whom appreciates the benefits of have a forum open to the public.

Until then I guess people like me will slowly whither away and with it the following of this wonderful forum will diminish to an insignificant number.

[thsaw99]

anxious bro i know how u feel over this...but u sound like ur giving up on this forum already...

i'm not saying the direction we're heading is 100% accurate but hey...we're still EVOLVING...give the committee some time...i think you will find something acceptable to you in the near future...

i'm happy to pay the fees for what this club offers me right now and i do appreciate the passion shown by the committee to bring this club to another level....perhaps the method they chose may not be the best right now....but hey i wanna give them a chance:)

[anxious]

Believe me its NOT the money. I've spent so much on my car over the last month that the RM300 membership cost is nothing to me.

It has become a matter of principal to me.

I feel its WRONG to use the forum as a tool to coerce people to become members of the club.

The forum should be open to ALL, members and non members of the club alike. If they like what they see then and want to participate in the club they can become members.

The rest may just wish to exchange ideas in cyberspace and should have access to the forum to discuss and share their experiences. It really doesnt cost much and as I said I for one am willing to donate the equivalentamount to the membership fees towards the maintenance of the forum.


PS I just realised that more of my older postings have been moved to the Tech (closed) section.

[INNOVATOR]

Sorry, anxious. I am a bit curious. What is the principle? Here is someone or some people, who out of their own initiative, time, effort, interest and money; started this forum for free. Who still administers this forum. And possibly have handed it over to BMWCM, the official club and its committee. So, they have become co-owners or owners of this forum and website.

Now, you are saying they can't do what they intend to do with their own property? You mean to say that if I own a piece of land and have let you poach on it for over twenty years; and now, I want to build a building on it, I can't because you as a poacher say "Its not fair?" Where is the logic?

The only principle here is the owners or caretakers of this forum/website have every right to administer to this forum/website as they deem fit. That is the principle. Don't worry your head and lose sleep over this. Just pay the fees and HAVE A SUPER FANTASTIC WEEKEND!!!

[geoffreylee]

Guys...

Lets not let this case continue please.... BCM Committee, please dont ignore there a problem here.. Please try to solve the problems.

Forumers just sharing their concern so just take their suggestion ans discuss it on an open meeting, it can be during your own TT. Lets dont argue with our forumers here.

Just met a few of the committee and Mr. DD himself. They all are dedicated and love the club very much.. so therefore, respect fellow forumers and take there suggestions to committee.

Malu la if we continue bla bla bla in this public forum

Hope this will end soon...


Thanks

[guru]

cyberspace was made free.. and will always remain so.

porn sites that used to charge real money..what happened to them?
now free sites are everywhere and make money by selling advertising space.

we know where this is going.

[thsaw99]

:) just wondering, if we can, say..separate the BMWCM in the cyber world from the BMWCM in the REAL WORLD...and also have 2 separate teams running and managing the entities...

lets just say this is happening for the sake of discussion(be constructive)... i suppose then the forum can be re-managed/re-moderated etc by the new team...and it will be free!

anybody wanna come take up the posts to be made vacant by the current committee? cos they're going over to take care of the REAL WORLD BMWCM...:)

[INNOVATOR]

thsaw99, that is like setting up another forum, which I had suggested in one of my earlier posts in this thread. But the whole issue here is not about management. The issue here is FREE.

The club has a right to decide on the matter as they please. Seperating the forum from the brick & mortar is not going to be the issue. Once this is finally settled and lets say the forum is seperated from the brick & mortar, another issue will start to crop up - "How come there is an activity in the club and we are not informed about it? or how come we don't get freebies or invites anymore?"

A lot of others have mentioned that they are members of numerous other forums, too. So, go there la. Why make so much noise here. Unless,this is the happening site.

Please don't get me wrong. I am not trying to take sides either way. I am still a "regular member"(as you can see); not yet an "official member"(still waiting to give my cheque and form in. I have signed up). I still can't access the tech & performance area myself. I am paying as a full-fledged member, not just to go into this area (I doubt I will hardly access this section. hardly did before); but to lend support to this club to see it succeed its mission and vision.

Guys & gals, by all this hoo ha on this thread; it is quite obvious that this is THE CLUB FOR BMW OWNERS AND THOSE ASPIRING TO OWN ONE! Have fun!

[guru]

maybe the solution could be a member's only zone(new) and the rest of the world can still enjoy the free forum? the members can enjoy 'perks' reserved only for them while cyber-supporters only exist in the forum.. could work.?

[INNOVATOR]

One more thing. guru, this forum and website will always remain free - to official members. Have fun, bro.

[jarance]

yo, innovator!! are you sure you are not one of the committee in deguise?? Ha..ha..ha..

Anyway, thanks for your time to clarify certain issue to other forummers.

Hope to see you as a official member soon. Welcome onboard.

A little bird told me that the CM are holding a meeting tomorrow to address this issue with all the points bought up by the forummers taken into considerations.
Let keep our fingers and toes cross for the time being..

[jarance]

maybe the solution could be a member's only zone(new) and the rest of the world can still enjoy the free forum? the members can enjoy 'perks' reserved only for them while cyber-supporters only exist in the forum.. could work.?

Yes, that have been proposed. Something like - "Members Lounge". However, this have to be discussed and approved by majority vote of the CM.

[XXX]

Wow!...I think Im going to loose my job soon..:D ...

[Iqlima]

Sorry, anxious. I am a bit curious. What is the principle? Here is someone or some people, who out of their own initiative, time, effort, interest and money; started this forum for free. Who still administers this forum. And possibly have handed it over to BMWCM, the official club and its committee. So, they have become co-owners or owners of this forum and website.

Now, you are saying they can't do what they intend to do with their own property? You mean to say that if I own a piece of land and have let you poach on it for over twenty years; and now, I want to build a building on it, I can't because you as a poacher say "Its not fair?" Where is the logic?

The only principle here is the owners or caretakers of this forum/website have every right to administer to this forum/website as they deem fit. That is the principle. Don't worry your head and lose sleep over this. Just pay the fees and HAVE A SUPER FANTASTIC WEEKEND!!!


Unfortunately forum exist at first place before idea of club. The forum exist long ago just the "skin" or the web look different. I was in old forum since 2002 till now , I remember Kinghamsap .......... I like him.

Yes they probably not contribute the money but they contribute the "technical/fun/ nonesense /politic reference " ..........

They also believe ,they contribute the forum until it become so popular for reference , they also probably think the same why the club exist now ,I believe without this contribution at first place , there "probably" no club ........

Contribution from them from old days ............ would you deny it ?

[INNOVATOR]

Thanks, Iglima. Point taken. I believe we all understand each other's views in this long thread. You have to agree, that this club is evolving continuously for the better for all.

It started out as a forum, then it became a website. Now it has created a brick & mortar club, too. These are hiccups, the committee is going through now. Don't you think 5 years of freeness is enough? Who is paying for the maintenance of this site? It was free all this while. Don't you think its about time to chip in, to help this website grow; and so to, the club? Don't you think you will benefit from it, somehow, in the end?

RM0.00057077625 per minute. That is your initial cost for this year. Next year you just pay subscription fees of RM0.00028538812 per minute. Now, isn't that a bargain? Or would you continue to want things free, irregardless the cost or who bears the cost?

Btw, I am not on the committee. As I said before, I most probably won't be utilising most of the facilities offered by the club. But if someone here shares an idea or a tip that saves me a lot of money; I consider my fees well invested. Thanks.

[Daniel]

I know how.

Just post up your thread in the section that's still open for public!

[Daniel]

It started out as a forum, then it became a website. Now it has created a brick & mortar club, too. These are hiccups, the committee is going through now. Don't you think 5 years of freeness is enough? Who is paying for the maintenance of this site? It was free all this while. Don't you think its about time to chip in, to help this website grow; and so to, the club? Don't you think you will benefit from it, somehow, in the end?

Since it's been made a point on numerus occasions that this if the OFFICIAL BMW forum and is in fact monitored by AB, why don't AB be the sponsor for the fees required. Isn't strange then that the coorperate that the forum is based on is so silent in responding to the faults and problems encountered by their customers and now this.

[jarance]

Daniel, it is not AB but BMW Malaysia.

[Daniel]

all the better that BMW Malaysia would sponsor their forum!

[geoffreylee]

Wonder how many forumers has bought their ride from BMW Malaysia or AB or Sapura Auto?

[redbaron]

Bro you cannot buy car frm BMW MALAYSIA you only can purchase frm their dealer.

[XXX]

Daniel

to further enlighten you abt this Club. This club is not supported by BMW Malaysia nor its dealers, we are intalks at the current moment as we are only just starting to be a club. This Club is endorsed by The BMW Club Council which is part of BMW AG. The local BMW network in that particular country is advised to work with that endorsed club, it is not a must but they must not work with an unofficially recognised BMW Club though. As the officially recognised Club we are allowed to use the roundel and also to monitor other clubs in the country who use the roundel unofficially, we do not reprimand them but our job is to let that particular club know and to report to BMW Club Council for their further action if we cannot resolve the matter.
To summarise it all We are the Master Franchisee when it comes to clubs pertaining to BMW and a completely different entity to BMW Malaysia whose role is to sell BMW Cars.

[jarance]

XXX,

Actually, BMW Malaysia have supported the club. Maybe not financially, but surely in kinds and moral support.

1. I received a X3 car model and credit card size torch light during the last IAD.
2. I received a customized BMW pens as well for the first IAD.
3. and not forgetting to mention a weekend usage of the 745 ci. hee..hee.. (remember that)

Mr. Vijay and his boss have also graced most of the club official events with their attendance.

[XXX]

Yes jarance my bad, how could I have overlooked that. Ok I suppose then if we want to really get BMW Malaysia's full support we then need to get those members for this club, for them to look at us differently.

[rao328]

wow, u guys are massive, never read about this kind of things on other forums before....
take a chill pill boys..

[rifhamdi]

wow, u guys are massive, never read about this kind of things on other forums before....
take a chill pill boys..

well people!

.....its like this,'pay up' to be with the 'force' or 'don't pay' and be on the 'dark side'.... sounds familiar eh?

stressful is it? then be like me and don't pay.... be on the 'dark side' with limited movement within this forum.... if that is your choice:rock:

as i have mention before 'life is full of choices'! and one does not have to endure more stress if one chooses to.

cheers

p/s: the admins has already made it possible for us on the dark side to access the tech & performance section.... so better enjoy it while you still can!

[rao328]

when will be the closing date for non official members have till dooms day?, its sad that i will not be able to interact with ppl here as i will not be paying, coz still living in nz, maybe when i come back will pay, so to all bimmer boys and girls, if u dont hear from me... I WILL BE BACK...someday :( haha

have a great one..
cheers
joshua

[Daniel]

wah, Samy has taken over this forum too?

Wanna go in, need pay toll!

[XXX]

Membership has its Privileges....btw the thread is still open for all we have listened to your grouses and left it open....but we open a new section for members eyes only...want to find out whats in it.....join the club lah....

[cppeng]

Membership has its Privileges....btw the thread is still open for all we have listened to your grouses and left it open....but we open a new section for members eyes only...want to find out whats in it.....join the club lah....

Hi XXX,

join BMWCM last month and my number is 6237, but till to date my forum detail still the same (regular member) no update by admin, also just to check when i can collect the club members goodies, i.e shirt,cap.....

TQ